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FEPlanet Forums _ Bugs, Suggestions, Questions _ New Class Discussion

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 22 2013, 07:52 PM

I've taken a look at the coding (in a screen-share call with sirocyl) and I'm happy to say that it is possible to add new classes. The coding is set up where adding a class is just as easy as adding a new battle type.

Because of this, new classes may or may not be added to the new version of FETO coming up, but for now, please take the discussions here.

Classes Currently In Limbo (that can be discussed):
WTA3 Mages
Sword/Light Class
Lance/Anima Class
Dark/Axe Class
Pegasus Rider (Sword Peg Unpromote)
Wyvern Lancer (Lance Wyvern Unpromote)
Hawk Master (Sword Hawk Promote)
Dracoknight (Lance Draco Promote)
Curate > Clairvoyant
Fighter > Hero
Fighter > Foot Lance/Axe Class (undetermined name)
Mercenary > Infantry
Mercenary > Ranger
Soldier > Foot Lance/Axe Class (undetermined name)
Soldier > Foot Lance/Bow Class (undetermined name)
Archer > Warrior
Archer > Foot Lance/Bow Class (undetermined name)
3rd Tiers

Classes not to be discussed:
Bow Troubs (Makes flying units in whole negligible)
Master Knights/Barons (Unbalanced "God Classes" and may be removed)
Manakete (Balancing issues)

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Nov 22 2013, 10:01 PM

QUOTE(Falaflame @ Nov 22 2013, 06:52 PM) *
I've taken a look at the coding (in a screen-share call with sirocyl) and I'm happy to say that it is possible to add new classes. The coding is set up where adding a class is just as easy as adding a new battle type.

Because of this, new classes may or may not be added to the new version of FETO coming up, but for now, please take the discussions here.

Classes Currently In Limbo (that can be discussed):
WTA3 Mages
Sword/Light Class
Lance/Anima Class
Dark/Axe Class
Pegasus Rider (Sword Peg Unpromote)
Wyvern Lancer (Lance Wyvern Unpromote)
Hawk Master (Sword Hawk Promote)
Dracoknight (Lance Draco Promote)
Curate > Clairvoyant
3rd Tiers

Classes not to be discussed:
Bow Troubs (Makes flying units in whole negligible)
Master Knights/Barons (Unbalanced "God Classes" and may be removed)
Manakete (Balancing issues)


QUOTE(Blade Lord S-IX @ Mar 31 2013, 09:10 PM) *
If Hybrid classes ever appeared on the face of FETO~



Name: Executioner
Wpns: Axe/Dark
Tier: 2nd


Honestly, I'm good and ready for some new classes, aside from hybrids, there are quite a few other class/combinations we haven't used. Lance/Bow on foot, Lance/Axe on foot (on foot = non-mage/armor/mount)

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 23 2013, 12:00 AM

Like I said before, FETO is already bloated with unused classes so there should be a mass purging of classes/re-assignment of classes first...

I mean I can say off the bat lance draco will be unused.

Also melee/magic is all but broken unless they had terrible stats like 25 Pow and no pros.

Posted by: fensti Nov 23 2013, 11:54 AM

I think adding classes is a little more difficult than just adding a battle type. Battle types can just be coded in. Classes have to be put in the database and also added to the code so we can see what their base stats are and such.

Probably not going to purge any classes since we can support having this many classes on the server and such and that characters exist for every class and I'm not sure what exactly would happen if we up and deleted classes.

I can also fiddle around with classes and items now, so if you want to make threads about changing other classes or items feel free to do that. happy.gif

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 23 2013, 03:56 PM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 23 2013, 12:00 AM) *
Like I said before, FETO is already bloated with unused classes so there should be a mass purging of classes/re-assignment of classes first...

I mean I can say off the bat lance draco will be unused.

Also melee/magic is all but broken unless they had terrible stats like 25 Pow and no pros.

The lance draco is an option for those who do not want to rely on insight and dodging and want to tank. Furthermore, it gives people the option to promote to Wyvern Lords and Wyvern Masters with B lances as opposed to D.

Ergo, a sword peg also gives people the option to promote to Peregrine Knights and Falcoknights with B swords as opposed to D. It also gives them the choice between wanting a physical insighter on their team (dracos) and a magic-based insighter (hawks). It's all up to pure taste.

And before you say "LOLOL NON-HAWKS SUX NO ONE WILL USE THEM LOLOL", that's what this sub-forum is here for. You're going to post changes on how to balance them so they don't suck. There have been ideas floating around to make non-hawks viable. Please take note of them.

So whether or not you think they will be unused is a negligible point.

The Melee/Magic classes was included for discussion because there ARE ways to balance it. We've discussed them in the past. We can discuss them here.

Also added to the list in the first post:

Fighter > Hero
Fighter > Foot Lance/Axe Class (undetermined name)
Mercenary > Infantry
Mercenary > Ranger
Soldier > Foot Lance/Axe Class (undetermined name)
Soldier > Foot Lance/Bow Class (undetermined name)
Archer > Warrior
Archer > Foot Lance/Bow Class (undetermined name)

Posted by: LeaderR Elliot Nov 23 2013, 04:14 PM

QUOTE(Falaflame @ Nov 23 2013, 04:56 PM) *
QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 23 2013, 12:00 AM) *
Like I said before, FETO is already bloated with unused classes so there should be a mass purging of classes/re-assignment of classes first...

I mean I can say off the bat lance draco will be unused.

Also melee/magic is all but broken unless they had terrible stats like 25 Pow and no pros.

The lance draco is an option for those who do not want to go through the arduous pain of raising a Peg Knight unpromoted. Also it gives a lance option that's probably the best lance option you have for unpromotes.



So you want something that outclasses all unpromoted lance options while removing peg knights only niche? nice balance

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 23 2013, 04:36 PM

QUOTE(LeaderR Elliot @ Nov 23 2013, 04:14 PM) *
QUOTE(Falaflame @ Nov 23 2013, 04:56 PM) *
QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 23 2013, 12:00 AM) *
Like I said before, FETO is already bloated with unused classes so there should be a mass purging of classes/re-assignment of classes first...

I mean I can say off the bat lance draco will be unused.

Also melee/magic is all but broken unless they had terrible stats like 25 Pow and no pros.

The lance draco is an option for those who do not want to go through the arduous pain of raising a Peg Knight unpromoted. Also it gives a lance option that's probably the best lance option you have for unpromotes.



So you want something that outclasses all unpromoted lance options while removing peg knights only niche? nice balance

My head must've been so far up my ass when I made that post. I'll just edit it, really. Sorry for that. I tend to have braindead moments at times.

Even still, how do you consider that a "niche" anyway? That's like saying adding Dark Kns to the game removes Shaman's niche because they both use Dark Magic.

Wyvern Lances do the same thing as Peg Knights -- flying utilitizers with lances. Except one's better at dodging and insighting, and the other one's better at tanking.

Posted by: fensti Nov 23 2013, 06:21 PM

Also, I believe I can add a fourth class change option if that is needed. Not 100% sure on that since I'll need to look it over first.

Posted by: LeaderR Elliot Nov 23 2013, 08:06 PM

QUOTE
s
[07:00:00 p.m. | still all dracos outclass lance peg in unpromo ('cause bulk>whatever peg knt has)
[07:00:57 p.m. | Edited 07:01:56 p.m.] Elliot Gutierrrez: and peg knight niche is only lance unit with wings which is a pretty bad niche as you have said... Thus making them less unique etc
[07:02:25 p.m.] Elliot Gutierrrez: and dodging/insighting in unpromo only happens in sadrenaline
[07:02:35 p.m.] Elliot Gutierrrez: Sadrenaline is the devil


that beign said 4th promotion tree would be good for mercenary if you give them nomad trooper. that was speedy idea




Posted by: Falaflame Nov 23 2013, 08:37 PM

@Elliot: Dodging/Insighting can still be viable in unpromotes, as you said with Sadistic, Adrenaline, or heck even both. And even if it isn't in other modes, it definitely is viable on most modes in promotes. Peg Knights still have a use.

@fensti: I actually thinking branching can go as far as 5. That way more options for foot units can be used.

For example, Mercenaries can promote to 5 different foot promotions:

Swordmaster
Trueblade
Hero
Ranger
Infantry

Not saying ALL classes HAVE to have 5 promotions, because some classes theoretically can't (like most mounted units) but it gives more flexibility to the classes you can do it with. Tired of Warriors starting with Ds in bows as opposed to Bs? Pick an Archer then.

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Nov 23 2013, 10:48 PM

QUOTE(Falaflame @ Nov 23 2013, 07:37 PM) *
@Elliot: Dodging/Insighting can still be viable in unpromotes, as you said with Sadistic, Adrenaline, or heck even both. And even if it isn't in other modes, it definitely is viable on most modes in promotes. Peg Knights still have a use.

@fensti: I actually thinking branching can go as far as 5. That way more options for foot units can be used.

For example, Mercenaries can promote to 5 different foot promotions:

Swordmaster
Trueblade
Hero
Ranger
Infantry

Not saying ALL classes HAVE to have 5 promotions, because some classes theoretically can't (like most mounted units) but it gives more flexibility to the classes you can do it with. Tired of Warriors starting with Ds in bows as opposed to Bs? Pick an Archer then.


I actually like that idea Fal,

could that mean we could have Clerics -> Heaven kn promotes? or something along those lines?

ninja.gif
just hit me, curate -> troubs

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 24 2013, 12:25 AM

QUOTE(fensti @ Nov 23 2013, 11:54 AM) *
Probably not going to purge any classes since we can support having this many classes on the server and such and that characters exist for every class and I'm not sure what exactly would happen if we up and deleted classes.

I can also fiddle around with classes and items now, so if you want to make threads about changing other classes or items feel free to do that. happy.gif

It's not a space issue, but more of a "too many classes blargagh.gif " issue. It's like having the option to use any Pokemon thrust onto a newbie. Newcomers would choose classes that are familiar or look cool, while oldies will optimize and only use the "OU" classes with "Smogon" builds. And the list of classes, already huge, will become even larger. Although I do understand the appeal of having the option over not.

QUOTE
And before you say "LOLOL NON-HAWKS SUX NO ONE WILL USE THEM LOLOL", that's what this sub-forum is here for. You're going to post changes on how to balance them so they don't suck. There have been ideas floating around to make non-hawks viable. Please take note of them.

Any difference between classes is inherently unfair. I mean currently from a numbers perspective, it is "balanced," in other to make it balanced, you have to remove differences between each option.

I mean right now Pow is king, Axes/Bows/Dark are top tier, Bows >= Magic > Melee. So to balance, what are you going to do? Axes/Dark don't give +1 Atk on WTA? Melee is WTA over non-melee? You'd just have a huge cluster ala Fairy type.

As for huge list of incoming classes for every single possible conceivable niche, that:
- Takes away each classes individuality
- Ironically polarizes the game

Example:
Which class is canon to FE: Valkyrie, War Medic, or Holy Knight? Which one is the most used?

Not to say that FE is the pinnacle of balance, but having every possible option available inevitably has the "pros" flock to the best (or anti-best) option available.

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 24 2013, 05:57 AM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 24 2013, 12:25 AM) *
QUOTE
And before you say "LOLOL NON-HAWKS SUX NO ONE WILL USE THEM LOLOL", that's what this sub-forum is here for. You're going to post changes on how to balance them so they don't suck. There have been ideas floating around to make non-hawks viable. Please take note of them.

Any difference between classes is inherently unfair. I mean currently from a numbers perspective, it is "balanced," in other to make it balanced, you have to remove differences between each option.


Please tell me how hawks having the +15 avoid to counteract the +10 hit rate bows have on them, while peregrines, falcos, and seraphs don't is "balanced". Every non-hawk ever, especially unlorded, is braved to death. There's only 2 ways to fix this, and that's to:
1. Nerf bows, or
2. Remove the +10 hit effectiveness against non-hawks (but keep the dmg multiplier)

But that's an entirely different discussion and will have to be taken elsewhere as it is off-topic.

QUOTE
I mean right now Pow is king, Axes/Bows/Dark are top tier, Bows >= Magic > Melee. So to balance, what are you going to do? Axes/Dark don't give +1 Atk on WTA? Melee is WTA over non-melee? You'd just have a huge cluster ala Fairy type.


Please link me to a thread saying Axes/Dark don't get +1 on WTA as a suggestion.

Also weren't you the one discussing about WTA against bows? or was it Kaishin? I really don't remember.

Either way, I had none of those in mind.

QUOTE
As for huge list of incoming classes for every single possible conceivable niche, that:
- Takes away each classes individuality
- Ironically polarizes the game

Example:
Which class is canon to FE: Valkyrie, War Medic, or Holy Knight? Which one is the most used?


How does having a WTA3 Mage take away any individuality? As far as I know, mages could only get up to WTA2. And also please give me an example of how having Mercenaries promoting into Infantries and Archers promoting into Warriors "polarizing"? Because if the example you gave is the best example you can come up with for those two points you made, we're going to be talking for a long time.

QUOTE
Not to say that FE is the pinnacle of balance, but having every possible option available inevitably has the "pros" flock to the best (or anti-best) option available.


What the "pros" do is entirely their business, and ultimately, their prerogative. If they want to run all Axe/Dark/Bows, let them. Because in the end, all we're debating about is a luck-based tactics game that has either generous RNG or unforgiving RNG, depending on the player themselves.

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 24 2013, 10:28 AM

QUOTE
Please tell me how hawks having the +15 avoid to counteract the +10 hit rate bows have on them, while peregrines, falcos, and seraphs don't is "balanced". Every non-hawk ever, especially unlorded, is braved to death. There's only 2 ways to fix this, and that's to:
1. Nerf bows, or
2. Remove the +10 hit effectiveness against non-hawks (but keep the dmg multiplier)

They get to use 2 weapons instead and have the same stat distribution.

QUOTE
Either way, I had none of those in mind.

I didn't mention that you did, was just throwing out ideas.

What I mean is to balance things you don't throw in new things to counter things in the game ala Magic/Pokemon.

QUOTE
How does having a WTA3 Mage take away any individuality? As far as I know, mages could only get up to WTA2. And also please give me an example of how having Mercenaries promoting into Infantries and Archers promoting into Warriors "polarizing"? Because if the example you gave is the best example you can come up with for those two points you made, we're going to be talking for a long time.

WTA3 mages is for option 2. There isn't much of a reason to use WTA2 mages if WTA3 mages existed unless maybe if they had a crippling weakness like generals.

Didn't *stares at you* Merc promotions would polarize the game-- ironically if you gave 5 branches to every class, mercs would be the most unused because of their awful stat distribution. Everyone would run Fighter -> Hero and people unfortunate to have Merc promos would cry as they delegate them to their trash pile.

tl;dr: When you have multiple options, why not always go for the best? I mean unless you have teams of 6 Clerics/Heaven Knights that is, but if that's the optimum, then why not train 6 squads to raise them up and then ditch the other characters? :P

QUOTE
What the "pros" do is entirely their business, and ultimately, their prerogative. If they want to run all Axe/Dark/Bows, let them. Because in the end, all we're debating about is a luck-based tactics game that has either generous RNG or unforgiving RNG, depending on the player themselves.

So we are adding tons of branches and new classes, and most of them are newbie fodder I mean, never used. It's like Pokemon-- No one runs a Sunflora on their team.

Posted by: LeonusStarwalker Nov 24 2013, 04:09 PM

I'm no expert on the game or anything but I would absolutely love to have some weapon/magic classes.

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 24 2013, 04:28 PM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 24 2013, 10:28 AM) *
They get to use 2 weapons instead and have the same stat distribution.


And how exactly would that make up for the +10 hit bows have against them? There's a reason why they're never used in the metagame unless lorded, and even lorded, it's a stretch because you have so many better options.

QUOTE
I didn't mention that you did, was just throwing out ideas.

What I mean is to balance things you don't throw in new things to counter things in the game ala Magic/Pokemon.


lol don't worry, these things aren't going to be added in without immense discussion and ways to balance it. Then it'd be like Sonic 2006 all over again. As far as balancing existing things to add these classes in, that will be talked about here. I didn't make this thread to say "oh hey these classes are getting added on month/day/year. This thread is to consider the pros and cons of these classes, and how it would affect the current gameplay.

QUOTE
WTA3 mages is for option 2. There isn't much of a reason to use WTA2 mages if WTA3 mages existed unless maybe if they had a crippling weakness like generals.


Ironically that's what I was thinking about. Mages can get WTA3, but they have to be stuck with 5 mov just like any WTA3 class would. Also considering a 70 HP/35 res cap for them as well as a tome exclusively effective against them. As far as existing WTA2 mages? They will have 1 more move, and different caps from WTA3 Mages. Also immunity to said weapon. That's more than enough reason.

QUOTE
tl;dr: When you have multiple options, why not always go for the best? I mean unless you have teams of 6 Clerics/Heaven Knights that is, but if that's the optimum, then why not train 6 squads to raise them up and then ditch the other characters? :P


There is no single best unit, really. You may think War Meds are hot stuff, but what happens if they run into a Valk? Or worse yet, a dracolord? Also, aren't actual mages and peg mages better at offense than their healer comparisons, which are better for defense?

I'd like to see how the balance is that bad where everyone's running axe/dark/bows. In fact, I've rarely seen an axe user lately in my last 50 battles. I've seen some darks, and a ton of bows, but that's about it.

QUOTE
So we are adding tons of branches and new classes, and most of them are newbie fodder I mean, never used. It's like Pokemon-- No one runs a Sunflora on their team.


No one has to run a Sunflora on their team. That's my main point. And if existing classes are that bad where a buff is necessary, that can be discussed too. I don't mind taking time out of my busy schedule to discuss things like this. I have no problem with it. But don't go around saying "adding new classes" are a terrible idea. They're only bad if they're added without any discussions, and without any balance whatsoever.

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 24 2013, 06:36 PM

QUOTE
And how exactly would that make up for the +10 hit bows have against them? There's a reason why they're never used in the metagame unless lorded, and even lorded, it's a stretch because you have so many better options.

And thus is my second point that differences between classes are inherently unfair.

QUOTE
Ironically that's what I was thinking about. Mages can get WTA3, but they have to be stuck with 5 mov just like any WTA3 class would. Also considering a 70 HP/35 res cap for them as well as a tome exclusively effective against them. As far as existing WTA2 mages? They will have 1 more move, and different caps from WTA3 Mages. Also immunity to said weapon. That's more than enough reason.

Okay, so we're adding a ton of stuff to make sure that they're usable and don't destroy the game. And not to derail the argument and stuff, but WTA2 mages were originally balanced by being weak to magic. Basically like the warder WTA2 branch. And we can see how popular those are...

QUOTE
There is no single best unit, really. You may think War Meds are hot stuff, but what happens if they run into a Valk? Or worse yet, a dracolord? Also, aren't actual mages and peg mages better at offense than their healer comparisons, which are better for defense?

I'd like to see how the balance is that bad where everyone's running axe/dark/bows. In fact, I've rarely seen an axe user lately in my last 50 battles. I've seen some darks, and a ton of bows, but that's about it.

That's why you don't only use one type of unit.

I don't want to theorytard, but WM/Bishop/Druid/Sniper/H&R fodder/??? Valk? Sniper or mage avoids that WTA. Bishop? Counter with your own, or a WM. Nowhere is a Cavachamp seen or a Curatepromo around.

But... you are correct about the axes.

Shad http://feto.feplanet.net/battle/characters/131308 http://feto.feplanet.net/battle/characters/131662 any for the last couple tournies. Admittedly there was 1 non-dark/bow in each squad. Out of 6. :/

QUOTE
No one has to run a Sunflora on their team. That's my main point. And if existing classes are that bad where a buff is necessary, that can be discussed too. I don't mind taking time out of my busy schedule to discuss things like this. I have no problem with it. But don't go around saying "adding new classes" are a terrible idea. They're only bad if they're added without any discussions, and without any balance whatsoever.

Well, existing classes need buffs and some are very extraneous (like the bow gens, WTA2 warders, a bunch of horsies, etc.).

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Nov 24 2013, 09:50 PM

http://www.mediafire.com/download/22c4mz355stsral/FETO_StatCalc_3.xlsx courtesy of Krypto and Myself

Found an error, updated link~

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 25 2013, 01:02 AM

Real quick, it seems the drop down menu broke. :/

Warder -> Radiant: Sword/Light: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Warder -> Radiant [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 22.60
POW [0/0%]: 7.30
SKL [0/0%]: 7.30
SPD [0/0%]: 6.35
DEF [0/0%]: 4.15
RES [0/0%]: 8.40
LCK [0/0%]: 4.20

Promo Gains:
+2 HP, +1 Skl, +2 Spd, +1 Luc (only 6 as opposed to 10)

Warder -> Radiant [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [0/0%]: 19.00
SKL [0/0%]: 20.00
SPD [0/0%]: 22.00
DEF [0/0%]: 10.00
RES [0/0%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00

"Optimum Build"
Warder -> Radiant [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 50.00
POW [2/5%]: 25.00 [MAX]
SKL [1/15%]: 29.00
SPD [2/20%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Pursuit/Wrath


Assailant -> Ascetic: Axe/Anima: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Assailant [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 22.60
POW [0/0%]: 9.35
SKL [0/0%]: 7.25
SPD [0/0%]: 6.30
DEF [0/0%]: 4.20
RES [0/0%]: 6.40
LCK [0/0%]: 4.20

Promo gains:
+4 HP, +1 Spd, +1 Def, +1 Res

Assailant -> Ascetic [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 50.00
POW [0/0%]: 23.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00

"Optimum Build"
Assailant -> Ascetic [Defensive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/5%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [0/0%]: 21.00
DEF [2/20%]: 25.00
RES [2/5%]: 29.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00
Aurora/Counter


Pikeman -> Oracle: Lance/Dark: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Pikeman [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 22.60
POW [0/0%]: 8.35
SKL [0/0%]: 7.25
SPD [0/0%]: 6.30
DEF [0/0%]: 4.15
RES [0/0%]: 7.40
LCK [0/0%]: 4.25

Promo gains:
+2 HP, +1 Skl, +1 Spd, +1 Def, +1 Luc

Pikeman -> Centurion [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [0/0%]: 22.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

"Optimum Build"
Pikeman -> Centurion [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 50.00
POW [1/10%]: 25.00
SKL [2/15%]: 28.00
SPD [1/20%]: 30.00
DEF [1/0%]: 14.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 25 2013, 02:43 AM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 25 2013, 01:02 AM) *
Real quick, it seems the drop down menu broke. :/

Warder -> Radiant: Sword/Light: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Warder -> Radiant [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 22.60
POW [0/0%]: 7.30
SKL [0/0%]: 7.30
SPD [0/0%]: 6.35
DEF [0/0%]: 4.15
RES [0/0%]: 8.40
LCK [0/0%]: 4.20

Promo Gains:
+2 HP, +1 Skl, +2 Spd, +1 Luc (only 6 as opposed to 10)

Warder -> Radiant [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [0/0%]: 19.00
SKL [0/0%]: 20.00
SPD [0/0%]: 22.00
DEF [0/0%]: 10.00
RES [0/0%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00

"Optimum Build"
Warder -> Radiant [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 50.00
POW [2/5%]: 25.00 [MAX]
SKL [1/15%]: 29.00
SPD [2/20%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Pursuit/Wrath


Assailant -> Ascetic: Axe/Anima: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Assailant [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 22.60
POW [0/0%]: 9.35
SKL [0/0%]: 7.25
SPD [0/0%]: 6.30
DEF [0/0%]: 4.20
RES [0/0%]: 6.40
LCK [0/0%]: 4.20

Promo gains:
+4 HP, +1 Spd, +1 Def, +1 Res

Assailant -> Ascetic [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 50.00
POW [0/0%]: 23.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00

"Optimum Build"
Assailant -> Ascetic [Defensive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/5%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [0/0%]: 21.00
DEF [2/20%]: 25.00
RES [2/5%]: 29.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00
Aurora/Counter


Pikeman -> Oracle: Lance/Dark: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Pikeman [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 22.60
POW [0/0%]: 8.35
SKL [0/0%]: 7.25
SPD [0/0%]: 6.30
DEF [0/0%]: 4.15
RES [0/0%]: 7.40
LCK [0/0%]: 4.25

Promo gains:
+2 HP, +1 Skl, +1 Spd, +1 Def, +1 Luc

Pikeman -> Centurion [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [0/0%]: 22.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

"Optimum Build"
Pikeman -> Centurion [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 50.00
POW [1/10%]: 25.00
SKL [2/15%]: 28.00
SPD [1/20%]: 30.00
DEF [1/0%]: 14.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00


Weren't we also posting builds based off of bmages, too?

Posted by: Freeze Nov 25 2013, 06:23 AM

Why does the ascetic get 7 stats on promotion and the other 2 only 6? Other than that good work guys!

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Nov 25 2013, 06:36 AM

Gladiator [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 18.00
POW [0/0%]: 6.00
SKL [0/0%]: 6.00
SPD [0/0%]: 8.00
DEF [0/0%]: 6.00
RES [0/0%]: 4.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00

Gladiator [Balanced]
Stats at level 20
HP [0/0%]: 28.00
POW [0/0%]: 11.00
SKL [0/0%]: 13.00
SPD [0/0%]: 15.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 7.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00

Gladiator -> "Radiant" [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [/0%]: 40.00
POW [/0%]: 17.00
SKL [0/0%]: 21.00
SPD [/0%]: 23.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 12.00
LCK [0/0%]: 21.00
Promoted Bases at 20/20

Gladiator -> "Radiant" [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/10%]: 25.00
SKL [0/10%]: 27.00
SPD [1/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 14.00
RES [0/0%]: 10.00
LCK [2/10%]: 27.00


Gladiator -> "Radiant" [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 54.00
POW [2/10%]: 25.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 28.00
SPD [1/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 14.00
RES [1/5%]: 13.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 30.00
Sword/Light
Pursuit/Insight
\lord

@Fal, I based the Physical ones off of B.Mages

came up with Gladiator if we don't wanna alter the already existing classes

edit: btw I'll update the link again when i get home tonight, also be sure to save in your latest version of excel, not doing so causes problems

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 25 2013, 12:08 PM

QUOTE(HauntedChains @ Nov 25 2013, 06:23 AM) *
Why does the ascetic get 7 stats on promotion and the other 2 only 6? Other than that good work guys!

It's because 2 HP is worth 1 of another stat-- so technically they all get 5, haha.

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 26 2013, 02:00 AM

Actually, I think a WTA3 mage could be balanced without 5 Mov, anti-tome, and generally being bottom tier because of LongbowORKOs.

Ironically, make it have bad Res, just like current WTA2 mages. And to not outclass current WTA2 mages, make its Def lower as well.

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Nov 26 2013, 06:21 AM

I'll come up with some more builds tomorrow

Posted by: Freeze Nov 26 2013, 07:23 AM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 25 2013, 06:08 PM) *
QUOTE(HauntedChains @ Nov 25 2013, 06:23 AM) *
Why does the ascetic get 7 stats on promotion and the other 2 only 6? Other than that good work guys!

It's because 2 HP is worth 1 of another stat-- so technically they all get 5, haha.


O, right. I wasn't using my brain.

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 27 2013, 05:08 PM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 26 2013, 02:00 AM) *
Actually, I think a WTA3 mage could be balanced without 5 Mov, anti-tome, and generally being bottom tier because of LongbowORKOs.

Ironically, make it have bad Res, just like current WTA2 mages. And to not outclass current WTA2 mages, make its Def lower as well.

it still gets ORKO'd by longbows even with 70 HP?

Posted by: Nolan Kryptonite Nov 27 2013, 08:41 PM

Generals get critted to death by magic a lot

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Nov 28 2013, 04:31 PM

Gladiator -> "Parivir" [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/2.5%]: 40.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 25.00
SKL [0/7.5%]: 27.00
SPD [2/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 9.00
LCK [2/12.5%]: 27.00

Hermit -> "Oracle" [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/2.5%]: 52.00
POW [1/7.5%]: 25.00
SKL [2/12.5%]: 27.00
SPD [0/0%]: 12.00
DEF [0/5%]: 25.00
RES [2/7.5%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00


Hermit -> "Oracle" [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 44.00
POW [0/0%]: 19.00
SKL [0/0%]: 22.00
SPD [0/0%]: 14.00
DEF [0/0%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 18.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00

Hermit [Bulky]
Stats at level 20
HP [1/20%]: 40.00
POW [1/10%]: 17.00
SKL [2/0%]: 14.00
SPD [0/0%]: 9.00
DEF [0/5%]: 16.00
RES [2/5%]: 15.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00


Hermit [Balanced]
Stats at level 1
HP [0/0%]: 19.00
POW [0/0%]: 8.00
SKL [0/0%]: 6.00
SPD [0/0%]: 6.00
DEF [0/0%]: 7.00
RES [0/0%]: 6.00
LCK [0/0%]: 5.00

Hermit [Balanced]
Stats at level 20
HP [0/0%]: 30.00
POW [0/0%]: 13.00
SKL [0/0%]: 13.00
SPD [0/0%]: 10.00
DEF [0/0%]: 14.00
RES [0/0%]: 11.00
LCK [0/0%]: 9.00

Hermit = Lance Variant of Gladiator (Lord version of this thing is deadly in unpromo)
Oracle = Lance/Dark

Parivir = Sword/Anima

Posted by: Falaflame Nov 29 2013, 08:30 PM

QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Nov 27 2013, 08:41 PM) *
Generals get critted to death by magic a lot

But they aren't always ORKO'd are they? I think a 70/35/14 survives a pursuit crit with 1 crit.

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Dec 8 2013, 02:04 AM

Base promoted stats for a WTA3 Mage class

???? -> "Archsage" [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 62.00
POW [0/0%]: 20.00
SKL [0/0%]: 23.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 26.00
LCK [0/0%]: 9.00

literally just an inverted general for now, any thoughts/suggestions? (thought we couldn't post or something at 1st)

Posted by: Falaflame Dec 8 2013, 04:22 AM

Not bad. At least it's not getting lynched by snipers with longbows I dont think. Then again, cardinals with radiances lynches wta3 armors anyway so eh...

experiments gone wrong, complete useless garbage ahead: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text

Is it even possible to do:

Scout>Valkyrie
Cavalier>Holy Kn.
Raider>War Med.

Without them actually being inferior to the troub promotes stat-wise? I mean they do start with B in their respective weapons rather than D, so they could be used more for lower-leveled promoted matches. But beyond that?

Promotion Bonuses: +4 HP, +0 Pow, +0 skill, +2 Speed, +0 Def, +0 Res, +4 Luck

Scout -> Valkyrie [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/2.5%]: 50.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 20.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 26.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 9.00
LCK [2/12.5%]: 29.00

Eh, could be worse. The thing that gives them the edge over troub valks is that it's brave-proof.

They could run this too, I suppose.

Scout -> Valkyrie [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/2.5%]: 50.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 26.00
SPD [0/10%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 9.00
LCK [0/0%]: 20.00

I see an arising problem with magic counters, but I think a Ward will dissipate with that. Enemies may waste their dispel on it if they want, but this isn't a magic slayer anyway, so why bother with that if they could dispel a hawk with Fortune on it?

Lords...

Scout -> Valkyrie [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/15%]: 26.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 26.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 9.00
LCK [2/20%]: 32.00

Comparable to a standard troub lord, having +1 HP than the common one, but -1 lck.

Scout -> Valkyrie [Seer]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 16.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 26.00
DEF [0/5%]: 18.00
RES [0/12.5%]: 18.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 31.00

This might seem harmless at first glance, but I'm actually looking at the pros rather than the cons. It can insight a lot more units, and requires hefty attacks to be landed on it, otherwise it'll require 3 hits to kill. But with more power comes less accuracy, so have fun with that. The problem with this is, troubs have 1 more luck than this with the same build.

I haven't done cavaliers and raiders yet, but I'd imagine they'd be much uglier than what I've experimented with on scouts. Maybe I shouldn't even bother with Lck. o.O

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Dec 13 2013, 11:21 PM

could've sworn I replied to this facepalm.gif

Less dodgy/accurate than a troub and dies easier. Aside from the wpn ranks at promo there's almost no reason to pick this over a troub.
my 2 cents in a nutshell~

so you could try the luckless ver as mentioned in your post :P

Posted by: Falaflame Dec 14 2013, 05:02 AM

I'll probably take out the point from def and allocate it to res, because technically staves are magical so it makes sense, right?

Well at least I'm doing so for Raider.

Raider>War Medic promotion bonuses (based off of Barbarian): +4 HP, +1 Pow, +1 Skill, +2 speed, +0 Def, +1 Res, +1 Lck

Raider -> War Medic [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/7.5%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [0/17.5%]: 30.00
RES [1/0%]: 9.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Counter/Nihil?

Does everything a one-sided tank should do, except now it heals!

Lord?

Raider -> War Medic [Careful]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/12.5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/7.5%]: 22.00
RES [2/20%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/Wrath?

A bulky pursuiter axe mount... that heals.

I'll figure out Cavalier and Scout later.

Posted by: Falaflame Dec 16 2013, 09:10 AM

Cavalier -> Holy Kn promotion bonuses: +4 HP +1 Pow +1 Skill +1 Speed +0 Def +2 Res +1 Luck

Cavalier -> Holy Kn [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 19.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/7.5%]: 25.00
RES [2/17.5%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
Counter/Aurora

Standard countora unit. There's also other builds, such as a pursuiter that probably won't die to counters barring magic, a one-sided tank similar to that of Raider's build, and such.

Lord?

Cavalier -> Holy Kn [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/17.5%]: 26.00
SPD [1/20%]: 26.00
DEF [1/2.5%]: 22.00
RES [2/10%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
Pursuit/Wrath?

Similar to the Raider's lord posted above, but I suppose raider is a little better at this job.

Cavalier -> Holy Kn [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/12.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [0/17.5%]: 27.00
RES [2/20%]: 26.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
Counter/Aurora

Then again I suppose there's this.


As for Scouts?

Scout -> Valkyrie promotion bonuses: +4 HP +1 Pow +1 Skill +1 Speed +0 Def +1 Res +2 Luck

Scout -> Valkyrie [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/2.5%]: 52.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [1/10%]: 26.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 14.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Pursuit/Wrath?

Scouts are supposed to be more offensive than the other horse mounts (nomads aside), so naturally, when promoted to a valk, things won't be much different. The thing that puts this above troubs is the fact it guards against counters and it doesn't die to a brave.

Lord?

Scout -> Valkyrie [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/17.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/15%]: 26.00
DEF [0/2.5%]: 21.00
RES [2/10%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Pursuit/Wrath?

Please save your talk about "hurrhurr raiders and cavaliers are better at this than scouts" because this does the job just as well, except it has a sword, so it will be more critty. Just a crittier option for those who like pursuit crits.

And then, there's also this.

Scout -> Valkyrie [Seer]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/10%]: 26.00
DEF [0/5%]: 18.00
RES [0/10%]: 18.00
LCK [2/20%]: 30.00
Pursuit/Insight

Please make me a Raider or Cavalier build that can do this. Yes, I know troubs do a better job at it. Shaddap about that. :c

Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Dec 17 2013, 11:24 AM

Bulky mounted healer does seem nice hmm.gif

Posted by: kaishin no chikara Dec 19 2013, 10:55 AM

The WTA3 archsage is fine by me as long as it's POW gets capped at 25, so as to not make the WTA2 ground classes useless.

Unless... you want those to promote into archsage? In which case simply do that, no POW cap needed.

Also, lol @ it being impossible for archsage to get 30/30 POW/SPD without glass cannon. I like it. You are a sadistic kind of funny, Speeds.


Posted by: Blade Lord S-IX Dec 19 2013, 09:06 PM

I haven't even tried fiddling around with any builds for it yet Kai, xD


btw OWs for the Gladiator class that I have been mentioning


[F] and [M]

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