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Fun ideas which will never see the light of day
kryptonite
post Sep 15 2012, 07:23 PM
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Mechanics:
  • Criticals reduced to 2x damage (Wrath buff, and for prettier numbers)
  • Countercrit penalty removed (C/B toy buff)
  • Attacker's Advantage: Attackers get 2 skill proc, +5% Hit, Crit, Avd, and Crit Avd (pro-offense)
  • Skill gives 2 Hit again, Weapons lose 10 hit across the board (Skl buff)
  • Swords/Light get +3 Hit, Axes/Dark get -3 Hit (Axe/Dark nerf)
  • Status staves use Skl and Res to calculate hit (Own Skl + 2(Own Res) + Staff Hit - Enemy Def - 2(Enemy Res), Skl/Res buff, Pow nerf)
Skills:
  • HP: Regen: Restore 10% HP at the beginning and end of each own player's turn (pro-offense)
  • Pow: Impale: Damage formula becomes (Own Atk - Enemy Def/Res)*weapon effectiveness + 0.2*Own MT +WTA (pro-offense, viable due to AA)
  • Skl: Wrath: Crit Rate +25, Critical Damage becomes 3x (skl buff, pro-offense)
  • Spd: Pursuit: 1.0x damage for first hit, 0.5x damage for second hit (increased damage due to less rounding, no penalty for having Pursuit active)
  • Def: Parry: Physical damage reduced by 50% (general buff)
  • Res: Aurora: Damage changed to Enemy Atk - (Enemy Def + 2(Enemy Res))/2 (res buff)
  • Luck: Lucky: Own Hit/Crit RNs go from 0-90, Enemy Hit/Crit RNs go from 10-100 (luck independence from skl)
  • Con (?!): Smite: Shoving a unit with 4 less Con moves them 2 spaces instead of 1 (con relevance)
Nitty-Gritty:
  • Offensive Mages (all) get +2 to their BST (same as clerics/h knights)
  • Horsies get +2 to their BST (same as fliers)
Thoughts?
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kaishin no chikara
post Sep 16 2012, 10:17 PM
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My Name ^ Shit I Dribble ->
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QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Sep 15 2012, 08:23 PM) *
Mechanics:
[*]Criticals reduced to 2x damage (Wrath buff, and for prettier numbers)


Crits aren't really too broken. Just random. Although this would allow tankiers units some breathing room from worrying about crits.

QUOTE
[*]Countercrit penalty removed (C/B toy buff)


Unfortunately, shaq's "ololo i r counter crit you for 60 damage" lord pretty much shot this one down. It's a bit more viable with the crit nerf now, so I could see it being implemented if the game was being changed.

However, the point of those numbers a deterrent to attacking said units. Unfortunately, people can't afford to compromise the situation and end up attacking those units anyway, resulting in that sort of randomness.

QUOTE
[*]Attacker's Advantage: Attackers get 2 skill proc, +5% Hit, Crit, Avd, and Crit Avd (pro-offense)

This would be awesome, except realism mode makes it even more hilarious for attackers than this would ever do.

QUOTE
[*]Skill gives 2 Hit again, Weapons lose 10 hit across the board (Skl buff)


I see what you did there. Most units already have at least 20 skill, so they already get the 10 hit back from the buff. Units with 30 skill only see a 5% increase in hit rates though. I think it should be lowered. Maybe a 5 hit penalty or something.

QUOTE
[*]Swords/Light get +3 Hit, Axes/Dark get -3 Hit (Axe/Dark nerf)


I approve. In fact I motioned for it in the other topic. >_>

QUOTE
[*]Status staves use Skl and Res to calculate hit (Own Skl + 2(Own Res) + Staff Hit - Enemy Def - 2(Enemy Res), Skl/Res buff, Pow nerf)


That would be interesting. I guarantee that you would still see max POW/RES units with decent skill staving though.

The most hilarious part about this is that it's impossible to get 100% hit rate staving anything but a Charitable Princesst or a unit with a level much lower than yours (sleep only gets 100% with the Charitable Princesst, as no unit has both no SKL and RES at level 1.

QUOTE
Skills:
[*]HP: Regen: Restore 10% HP at the beginning and end of each own player's turn (pro-offense)


Nihil is a staple skill and despite it's flaws, it's the backbone of many teams. This skill shouldn't replace it. If you want both, that's fine. I feel like this would be sort of useless though, since most players attack to kill. It would be nice to counterattack damage, but not as useful as simply having another skill.

You could also COMBINE it with Nihil for some interesting strategies.

QUOTE
[*]Pow: Impale: Damage formula becomes (Own Atk - Enemy Def/Res)*weapon effectiveness + 0.2*Own MT +WTA (pro-offense, viable due to AA)


Assuming that this is a modification of the regular battle formula (as apposed to being in addition to normal damage, which would be insane), this means that the attack now does and additional damage equaling 20% of the weapon's MT.

QUOTE
[*]Skl: Wrath: Crit Rate +25, Critical Damage becomes 3x (skl buff, pro-offense)


Both of these would be bad. If we include both of these and the removal of the counterattack penalty, then wrath should not activate on defense.

QUOTE
[*]Spd: Pursuit: 1.0x damage for first hit, 0.5x damage for second hit (increased damage due to less rounding, no penalty for having Pursuit active)


Boo. Makes pegs even more luckbased, since it's now a chance of doing .5x, 1x, or 1.5x on a unit that already has a 5 POW penalty.

A better solution would be to round one hit up and the other down.

QUOTE
[*]Def: Parry: Physical damage reduced by 50% (general buff)


Same deal with Nihil. Counter is just too good to pass up. I could see both being used. Again, would be totally hilarious if Parry and Counter were to be combined. It would be really OP in that case, though.

QUOTE
[*]Res: Aurora: Damage changed to Enemy Atk - (Enemy Def + 2(Enemy Res))/2 (res buff)


The enemy does damage based on them attacking themselves? wat

I think you mean:

Player Atk - (Enemy Def + 2(Enemy Res))/2

In this case, it's too broken. Standard 25/25 DEF/RES Tank Druids now have an effective 37 DEF/RES. If you take out the RES multiplier, and, on top of that, make it only activate if the enemy is using a physical attack (otherwise it'd always activate and then it would just average DEF/RES. Pointless for anything that doesn't have overabundant RES), then it would be a good contending skill for a tank. Valiants would become godly because of this though, since there's no longer a reason to invest in DEF (barring counters that are unavoidable anyway) when RES does everything but better. 60/7/29 HP/DEF/RES Valiants now survive S-ranks in addition to ungodly hit rate.

QUOTE
[*]Luck: Lucky: Own Hit/Crit RNs go from 0-90, Enemy Hit/Crit RNs go from 10-100 (luck independence from skl)


First off, let's change it to 0-89 and 10-99 for consistency's sake. Normal RNs go from 0-99, if your hit rate matches the number, you miss; 100s never appear in the RNG. Despite reality being different, no amount of luck should ever fuck with a 100%. The FETO world would start collapsing in on itself if that ever happened.

Number crunching says that every attack's hit and crit rate is multiplied by 111%, so as expected, everything 90 hit or above now hits.

Valkyries now become somewhat more viable since this skill increases their crit rate, meaning that with the crit rate of swords, they can now crit.

The enemy's attacks and crits now have a (100 - miss_chance*1.11)% chance of hitting, meaning that enemy counterattack crits will almost never occur normally. A troub with this skill almost completely negates the effectiveness of the enemy's sniper/wrather units.
A 99% chance of hitting just becomes 98.89%, however.

QUOTE
[*]Con (?!): Smite: Shoving a unit with 4 less Con moves them 2 spaces instead of 1 (con relevance)


haha. That would be broken. Make it armour only.

QUOTE
Nitty-Gritty:
[*]Offensive Mages (all) get +2 to their BST (same as clerics/h knights)


You're a bit off. Mages don't have a penalty (well actually they do, but from melee units), Clerics have a buff.

The original reason this was done was because clerics have to put up with not attacking for 20 levels, so SaS gave them +2 BST. Because they're magic units, they had -2 BST to start with. These things negated each other.

What you should ask for is for clerics to have -2 BST.

However, clerics lack the dynamic builds to be glassy, where as mages, shamans, and monks cannot be tanks because of the -2 BST penalty (not even shamans, unless lorded). Clerics have to take forced RES (and more than just 2, they have to take 5 or 6), effectively cancelling out the bonus from the +2 BST and with it, any hope they have of being crazy offensive.

QUOTE
[*]Horsies get +2 to their BST (same as fliers)


That would make unmounteds with the same weapons obsolete. Remember, bows are a lot more dangerous to fliers than horseslayers are to horsies. That's why fliers don't have that penalty.

QUOTE
Thoughts?


cool story bro
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kryptonite
post Sep 17 2012, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE
Crits aren't really too broken. Just random. Although this would allow tankiers units some breathing room from worrying about crits.

My reasoning is in the parenthesis... 1) To make Wrath more relevant, and 2) To make the numbers more pretty. >_>

QUOTE
Unfortunately, shaq's "ololo i r counter crit you for 60 damage" lord pretty much shot this one down. It's a bit more viable with the crit nerf now, so I could see it being implemented if the game was being changed.

However, the point of those numbers a deterrent to attacking said units. Unfortunately, people can't afford to compromise the situation and end up attacking those units anyway, resulting in that sort of randomness.

Oh, I remember that... But this is to make toys other than Reliable/Slim D rank viable. :/ And yes, it comes with Crit "Nerf"...

QUOTE
This would be awesome, except realism mode makes it even more hilarious for attackers than this would ever do.

This is kind of what Realism does for enemies that take damage...

QUOTE
I see what you did there. Most units already have at least 20 skill, so they already get the 10 hit back from the buff. Units with 30 skill only see a 5% increase in hit rates though. I think it should be lowered. Maybe a 5 hit penalty or something.

The reasoning for this is the Skl dump in unpromo since Avd is too unreliable then... And to nerf dual tanks and such.

QUOTE
I approve. In fact I motioned for it in the other topic. >_>

I stole it. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) Cause I liked it.

QUOTE
That would be interesting. I guarantee that you would still see max POW/RES units with decent skill staving though.

The most hilarious part about this is that it's impossible to get 100% hit rate staving anything but a Charitable Princesst or a unit with a level much lower than yours (sleep only gets 100% with the Charitable Princesst, as no unit has both no SKL and RES at level 1.

People investing in Res would be a nice change. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif)

QUOTE
Nihil is a staple skill and despite it's flaws, it's the backbone of many teams. This skill shouldn't replace it. If you want both, that's fine. I feel like this would be sort of useless though, since most players attack to kill. It would be nice to counterattack damage, but not as useful as simply having another skill.

You could also COMBINE it with Nihil for some interesting strategies.

Nihil was gone because it's boring because it's too defensive.

Regen was added as a twist. It can be used to gain HP when a unit fails to kill (like misses), heal HP on counters like you said, and... lessens dependency in unpromo on healers!

QUOTE
Assuming that this is a modification of the regular battle formula (as apposed to being in addition to normal damage, which would be insane), this means that the attack now does and additional damage equaling 20% of the weapon's MT.

Oops, I meant ATK. I'll fix that later.

Yeah, it's powerful even with just that. But remember with Attacker's Advantage, it will only happen on the attacking turn if at all.

QUOTE
Both of these would be bad. If we include both of these and the removal of the counterattack penalty, then wrath should not activate on defense.

I'm trying to make Wrath more viable... But I'm open to ideas. :P

QUOTE
Boo. Makes pegs even more luckbased, since it's now a chance of doing .5x, 1x, or 1.5x on a unit that already has a 5 POW penalty.

A better solution would be to round one hit up and the other down.

I think Pegs having pretty much guaranteed 0.75 damage on first attack as it is now is worse... At least with this, if it can kill with that 35 Atk, the damage isn't nerfed so it has to eat a counter.

QUOTE
Same deal with Nihil. Counter is just too good to pass up. I could see both being used. Again, would be totally hilarious if Parry and Counter were to be combined. It would be really OP in that case, though.

Half the reasoning was to make it different from Aurora-- the other half, for Knights not to be raped by armorslayers and physicals as hard. >.> Now if you invest in Defense, you can go all out on physicals without fear!

QUOTE
The enemy does damage based on them attacking themselves? wat

I think you mean:

Player Atk - (Enemy Def + 2(Enemy Res))/2

In this case, it's too broken. Standard 25/25 DEF/RES Tank Druids now have an effective 37 DEF/RES. If you take out the RES multiplier, and, on top of that, make it only activate if the enemy is using a physical attack (otherwise it'd always activate and then it would just average DEF/RES. Pointless for anything that doesn't have overabundant RES), then it would be a good contending skill for a tank. Valiants would become godly because of this though, since there's no longer a reason to invest in DEF (barring counters that are unavoidable anyway) when RES does everything but better. 60/7/29 HP/DEF/RES Valiants now survive S-ranks in addition to ungodly hit rate.

That's the same thing it is now.

Right now it's Enemy Atk * 0.6 - avg(Enemy Def/Res). I made Res weigh more and increased the overall damage.

And I should have made it clear that it still only affects Magical attacks...?

QUOTE
First off, let's change it to 0-89 and 10-99 for consistency's sake. Normal RNs go from 0-99, if your hit rate matches the number, you miss; 100s never appear in the RNG. Despite reality being different, no amount of luck should ever fuck with a 100%. The FETO world would start collapsing in on itself if that ever happened.

Number crunching says that every attack's hit and crit rate is multiplied by 111%, so as expected, everything 90 hit or above now hits.

Valkyries now become somewhat more viable since this skill increases their crit rate, meaning that with the crit rate of swords, they can now crit.

The enemy's attacks and crits now have a (100 - miss_chance*1.11)% chance of hitting, meaning that enemy counterattack crits will almost never occur normally. A troub with this skill almost completely negates the effectiveness of the enemy's sniper/wrather units.
A 99% chance of hitting just becomes 98.89%, however.

Um, yup!

QUOTE
You're a bit off. Mages don't have a penalty (well actually they do, but from melee units), Clerics have a buff.

The original reason this was done was because clerics have to put up with not attacking for 20 levels, so SaS gave them +2 BST. Because they're magic units, they had -2 BST to start with. These things negated each other.

What you should ask for is for clerics to have -2 BST.

However, clerics lack the dynamic builds to be glassy, where as mages, shamans, and monks cannot be tanks because of the -2 BST penalty (not even shamans, unless lorded). Clerics have to take forced RES (and more than just 2, they have to take 5 or 6), effectively cancelling out the bonus from the +2 BST and with it, any hope they have of being crazy offensive.

With +2, they can do things other than be glassy, offensive, rider or 5/5/5...

QUOTE
That would make unmounteds with the same weapons obsolete. Remember, bows are a lot more dangerous to fliers than horseslayers are to horsies. That's why fliers don't have that penalty.

Too bad they are totally outclassed by wyverns except for access to bows... >_>
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kryptonite
post Apr 23 2013, 10:04 AM
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Bump now that it's possible...
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