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FETO Tournament polls
FETO Tournament questions
Which would you prefer for 16-man (or larger) tournaments?
Best out of 3 [ 4 ] ** [26.67%]
Best out of 1 [ 3 ] ** [20.00%]
Indifferent [ 8 ] ** [53.33%]
Disable status staves for tournaments?
Yes [ 11 ] ** [73.33%]
No [ 3 ] ** [20.00%]
Indifferent [ 1 ] ** [6.67%]
Which staves should be disabled?
Silence [ 13 ] ** [31.71%]
Seal [ 10 ] ** [24.39%]
Sleep [ 13 ] ** [31.71%]
Fear [ 3 ] ** [7.32%]
I answered no or indifferent to question 2 [ 2 ] ** [4.88%]
Should rentals have higher weapon ranks?
Yes (post with what your suggestion is) [ 8 ] ** [53.33%]
No [ 4 ] ** [26.67%]
Indifferent [ 3 ] ** [20.00%]
Total Votes: 15
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fensti
post May 28 2013, 04:36 PM
Post #1


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So, several suggestions were brought up in the thread for the Promoted Sadistic Adrenaline Tournament. I said I would make polls for them so we can discuss so here they are. My comments for them are located in this post.

1. 8-man tournaments will be staying as Best of 1 since they are supposed to be quick. Best of 3 for bigger tournaments could happen, but only if there is an overwhelming majority for them as those tournaments take a while as it is. If I were to do best of 3 it'd either be single elim or I would have to impose deadlines for each round (which I will talk about in the New Guidelines thread).

2 and 3. I do not play tournaments so I don't know how strong certain weapons/staves/etc are. Which is why I'm asking you guys for this. My personal opinion is that there is a Restore staff for a reason. Obviously 3 is a follow up to 2 so answer accordingly.

4. I'm just gonna let you guys discuss this one. Part of this one probably rests on the answer to questions 2 and 3 since some of the status staves are usable or unusable depending on what the ranks are.

That's it for now. If any other questions pop up I'll either tack them on here or make a new topic.
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Falaflame
post May 28 2013, 05:35 PM
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Skylessia Characters
#1



My answers differ depending on how many people are playing.

if it's 32-man or larger, then obviously it's Best of 1. If it's 16 man or shorter, then it's best of 3.

And also disable status staves, every one of them EXCEPT Fear. Fear, out of all the status staves, seems to be the most balanced.

Also, Rentals should have higher ranks. I don't care what anyone says, B and Cs are INFERIOR to Ss an As. Anyone who uses rentals are almost guaranteed to lose.
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kaishin no chikara
post May 28 2013, 10:51 PM
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Restore does nothing if all status stave users are asleep or silenced. That sounds a bit extreme but it's really not that farfetched. If you're playing unpromo, there's only one target to nail. In promo you have (or rather, CAN have) enough stave users to match the opponent's number, which is usually 2 or 3 but while teams that have six are rare, they are not unusual and certainly not unheard of. As for the number of required sleep staves: They are easier to get in tournies. Now, while some people do not realize that they are not viable to rely on because of their price per use if you use 5 shots every match, the matches that they DO use them they completely devastate the opponent.

QUOTE(Jeff @ Jul 2 2008, 09:33 PM) *
If you lack sufficient characters to enter in the tournament, or simply wish to not enter your characters, you may opt to create "rental" characters for the tournament - these characters will be usable only for the tournament. For weapon levels, unpromoted rentals will have a D + some weapon EXP in their main weapon, and D in their secondary weapon. Promoted characters will have B in their primary weapon, and C in any secondaries (may change in the future). Note that for every rental character you use, it will cost 500 gold in major tournaments.


B-rank is barely enough for promo. B-rank for promo doesn't give the extremely important S-rank bonus of +5 hit and crit. It also doesn't give access to the two generally perceived best weapons in promoted: Braves and the Power S-Ranks. You might as well give up if you plan to use units that must practically RELY on the S-rank tomes (such as pegasus mages, who need it to do decent damage whilst having decent hit) and the lack of the bonus definitely detracts from the power of snipers and valiants (the former greatly needs them to land longbow crits, the latter, any other type of non-killer crit) as well as pegasus mages (who need every point of hit they can get) and... well... any other unit, really.

Don't even get me started on unpromo. As Fala pointed out here:

QUOTE(Falaflame @ Apr 17 2013, 09:25 PM) *
The cutoff to where units are usable is C-ranks. Why? Several reasons.
-Forged weapons become more usable.
-Slayers. Armorslayers and Horseslayers both.
-Status tomes. Shimmer and Poison can fuck their shit whether your opponent has an advantage in weapon levels or not.
-Buff staves - Ward and Shield in particular.
-Remedy. You can heal your units from getting a shimmer or poison to the face.
-Dispel - You can remove the buff staff effects your opponent has against you.
-You can use status staves. With just Silence, but still, it's something.
-You can do more damage.
-You're open to 1-2 toys. Even forged knives/javelins/etc.
-Longbow. Enough said.


That is a LOT of stuff, and that is the "barely usable" category. The current unpromos don't get that as it is.

In addition, B-rank gives you the strongest weapons available to unpromos (a 3-might change from Cs and a 5-might change from Ds), which are extremely important for units with high hit and units with low power. In addition, killers make hit and running more viable and siege tomes allow for a greater range of options when planning out strategies. And let us not forget Physic, the extremely useful ranged healing device.

For both the promoted and unpromoted levels of play, this only serves to accentuate the difference between veteran players and intermediate and beginner players. The latter two don't have many teams to choose from when other tournies come up, leaving them to get slaughtered when they bring all low-hit dual tanks to a certain sadistic adrenaline or when they bring any combination of units ill-suited for terrain battles. They also can't change teams if that one team they made the first time they got here sucks (or if all of their teams suck). It takes a significant amount of time to train a unit and obviously it takes even longer to make a new team and get it to fighting standard. Rentals are the solution to this. They provide a replacement to having to go through a bunch of trouble to train up a team (which is normally impossible to do in the amount of time after a tourney is announced to when it fills up.

And before somebody says the words "giving people full-power rentals makes all the hard work by people that entered their own teams seem pointless," let me say this: All that time spent getting those teams in regular FETO gives unparalleled fighting experience compared to that of intermediate and beginner players. Those that spent time making teams and training them know the best way to use their team and they feel right at home with it. In addition, they know what builds work and they know how to fight much better because they do it much, much more often and in greater number. That is why almost all of the old tournies were won by people who fought a LOT of battles. Inan doesn't have 8 or so gold trophies by making teams and training. I can recall only a single tournament in the past which was won by someone who wasn't a "big name" in FETO (or in league with one in a team tourney).

It's this one, in case you're wondering.

Now, the important part:
Unpromoted should have B-ranks across the board.
Promoted units should have an S-rank in the primary and A-ranks in the rest of its weapons. In addition, each person should be able to ask to request to change which weapon the S-rank is in for each unit, if possible.
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SereneFlight
post May 28 2013, 11:42 PM
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1. Best out of 1... in 16+ man tournament best out of 3 will take forever.
2&3. Whatever... just ban all status staves (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/awesome.gif) even tho I don't really mind having Seal and Fear but Sleep and Silence must be banned.
4. Yes pl0x.
QUOTE(Falaflame @ May 29 2013, 01:35 AM) *
I don't care what anyone says, B and Cs are INFERIOR to Ss an As. Anyone who uses rentals are almost guaranteed to lose.

Not to mention about unpromo rentals... Didn't they have like D-ranks?
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Geoffrey Barbara Butl...
post May 28 2013, 11:54 PM
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Disclaimer: I refuse to read what anyone else posted right now 'cause I'm lazy. I'm just gonna post what I think.

1) Back in the day, iirc, there were major/minor tourneys. Major tourneys were Bo3, double elimination. Minors were either Bo3 and single elimination or Bo1 and double elimination. I personally have no real preference of whether you want to return to those kinda designations or not. Hence, I voted indifferent.

2) Status staves in their current iteration are, in my opinion, too powerful for their current prices. Their accuracy and range allows for too much to be done with them on first-strike and people can simply status their way through tourneys while gaining enough money to simply continue doing the same thing. There isn't any counter-play to silence, especially, because of the nature of them. First, you have to bring more than 2 healers because of the nature of silence. If both your healers get silenced, you cannot remedy. This becomes somewhat abated if you bring a troubadour or other physical staffer, but is still mostly the case. Secondly, even if you do have the capability to remedy, you are still at a grave disadvantage because you cannot strike back with that unit, and therefore the aggressor gets a sort of defender's advantage after first-striking. This isn't all bad, but at 11 range for foot units and 13 range for mounted units, there is no real counter-play through dancing.

However, having said all that, I don't particularly have a problem with the current iterations of staves in the game. I just have a problem with the fact that people don't have to give up too much in order to stave their way through the tourney. A price increase might be a way to abate that. I'm likely the only person who voted indifferently, but I do feel something needs to be changed.

3) Silence, Sleep, and Seal all remove units from the game entirely when used correctly. They're all extremely powerful, with the hierarchy going Sleep>Silence>=Seal. Fear is not that big a problem because it does not make a unit useless and forces a unit to have an s-rank in staves on top of its expense.

4) I believe rentals should have higher ranks because this is a tourney and I believe people should be on even footing as such. I'm in favor of full levels, as I believe the little medal that units get are enough bragging rights. However, this said, I understand from an administrative perspective why there is a reward system in place for people actually playing the game. This said, I'd be perfectly fine with a slight decrease in weapon rank for rentals.

For lords, B-rank in unpromo, S/A-ranks in promo

For generics, C-rank in unpromo, A/B-ranks in promo.

This allows for the use of nearly every important weapon by generics, while still leaving some sort of reward system in place for people who raise their own units. Namely, mithrils, twins, and killers in unpromo, and for promo, S-ranks and the S-rank bonus. I do believe that the ability to use brave weapons and great weapons will allow most units to be almost entirely competitive in tournament conditions.

In summation, I'm in favor of maximum potential for rentals. If not, they at least need more than what they're getting now, so as to not make rental units all but worthless.
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kaishin no chikara
post May 29 2013, 10:13 AM
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I'd be fine with that if it weren't for the fact that the S-rank bonus is so gosh darn powerful.
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fensti
post May 29 2013, 04:05 PM
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So, I've read everything posted so far. Not gonna comment on everything, just things here or there.

1. Tournaments are gonna stay best of 1 unless there is a crazy swing in votes.

2. Something is going to happen for status staves, most likely a banning, though I am going to say something else about that in this post.

3. There is a plurality for raising the levels, so I will probably raise them up in the next tournaments. I can set lords and nonlords separate though I will probably keep them the same, just letting the stat differences be all that makes them different.

Now, for the status staves issue, Geoffrey brings up an idea, which is to raise the price of those staves so that they are harder to get. As far as I know of off the top of my head raising the price will raise the price everywhere, though this will only matter with selling them outside of tournaments (though who would sell them). So maybe we should do a test tournament with higher prices on the status staves and see if that helps with the problem. What are everyone's thoughts on that idea?
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TBE
post May 29 2013, 04:52 PM
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Will we get trohpies for the test tournament or prizes? haha, that sounds good
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kaishin no chikara
post Jun 6 2013, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE(fensti @ May 29 2013, 05:05 PM) *
So, I've read everything posted so far. Not gonna comment on everything, just things here or there.

1. Tournaments are gonna stay best of 1 unless there is a crazy swing in votes.

2. Something is going to happen for status staves, most likely a banning, though I am going to say something else about that in this post.

3. There is a plurality for raising the levels, so I will probably raise them up in the next tournaments. I can set lords and nonlords separate though I will probably keep them the same, just letting the stat differences be all that makes them different.

Now, for the status staves issue, Geoffrey brings up an idea, which is to raise the price of those staves so that they are harder to get. As far as I know of off the top of my head raising the price will raise the price everywhere, though this will only matter with selling them outside of tournaments (though who would sell them). So maybe we should do a test tournament with higher prices on the status staves and see if that helps with the problem. What are everyone's thoughts on that idea?


You could. But I ought to point out that raising the price won't solve issue of people spamming all 5charges first match (as stupid as it may be).
The fate of the player is still at the hands of the enemy.
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kryptonite
post Jul 7 2013, 01:16 PM
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Vote for Infinite Regalia Tourney (100000/60000 gold)!

Vote for Team Tourney!
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Fredmir - HHH
post Jul 7 2013, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ Jul 7 2013, 02:16 PM) *
Vote for Team Tourney!

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