Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register ) · IRC Chat



ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 31 2008, 08:23 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


Yey, I'll join. I live in BC. But I'm not a Conservative. Surprising, isn't it? Just try being me. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/smile.gif)
  Forum: Groups/Clubs · Post Preview: #600206 · Replies: 238 · Views: 30,358

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 31 2008, 07:58 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


QUOTE(Tsuki akari @ Dec 31 2008, 08:46 AM) *
QUOTE(ZXValaRevan)
This my friends, is Capitalism at it's finest (or worst, depending on what you want to think). It's just an expansion on the idea. They want people to buy things. Lots of things. For lots of money. The rich don't want you to get rich. If everyone is rich, then no-one is rich. The market, and society really, is built around the idea that people will always buy things. As soon as you start making more money, it is assumed, in fact, you have it drilled into your psyche everyday, that you will up your "standard of living". In this way, you will never really make money.


Though, making people spend money is what stimulates the economy. I know the topic has strayed a little bit, but the exchange of money is what drives interest rates up (and inflation as well). Of course, a moderate amount of this is a sign of a strong economy. In general, people aren't spending as much these days, and the interest rate has been cut significantly to encourage buying and borrowing.

It is, true, however the problem with this is that there will always be some people (the very rich) who have far more than the poor can ever dream of, and in fact will always live better than them. Essentially, with the Capitalist system that many nations run off now (especially those in North America), the Middle Class is being slowly drained into the Poor, while the Rich stay rich. Spending money is all well and good, but when the society is engineered towards a point at which the majority of people spend all their money, then it can become a problem.
  Forum: Debates · Post Preview: #600193 · Replies: 10 · Views: 4,088

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 30 2008, 09:53 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


Only read the first, but I enjoyed Dune quite a bit. Planning on reading the rest at some point in the near future.
  Forum: Entertainment · Post Preview: #599497 · Replies: 9 · Views: 1,564

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 30 2008, 09:50 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


QUOTE(Foe @ Dec 30 2008, 06:38 PM) *
Math was created to understand nature, or was it derived from it? Perhaps both!

Regardless, how does math prove that the universe had to have a start?

Conservation of mass would imply that no creation of any sort ever occured, if and if there was no creation, there was no start. The big bang is a transformation at best.

As for your response to Jonahman, I hope you can reduce your abrasiveness.

@Phish: Attitude, unfortunately that's not a very easily altered thing. You can either continue on that same path, and be prepared to shrug off all the crap you get from others, or cease pursuit, and satisfy yourself with how things work as they are now.

Mathematically, if the universe is infinitely old, then essentially nothing could ever happen, because it would happen after an infinite amount of time. But honestly, I don't have too much interest in that train of that at this time, so I'll let you take this one for now. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/smile.gif)

As for my response to him... I find that being abrasive drastically reduces the amount of people who will run in, flailing wildly without any sort of prior knowledge or understanding. Because so many scientists and people looking for the truth have been silenced throughout history, and because almost everything humanity has is because of their work, I am not going to let somebody run in and spew bullshit all over their names. If he really thinks he knows what he's doing, he should be able to prove Intelligent Design. But you can't, because Intelligent Design is so full of holes it isn't even funny anymore. In fact, I find it disgusting that people still push this agenda and try to pretend that they're actually correct, when they clearly are not.
  Forum: Debates · Post Preview: #599495 · Replies: 164 · Views: 22,134

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 30 2008, 09:34 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


QUOTE(Foe @ Dec 30 2008, 03:32 PM) *
I have nothing against the big bang happening, but what was cause for it to be able to happen in the first place?

Logically speaking you can -always- ask back a further step "what created god?" is the same thing.

Due to this infinite cycle of going back one more step after another, for me, it is only logical to conclude that there was no beginning.

Furthermore, the big bang being highly supported now doesn't make it true. It used to be evidently supported that the sun moved around the earth, but as our knowledge of things around us grew that changed. We certainly are not knowledgeable of the universe as a whole, and the big bang involves all of it as a theory.

And don't think atheism is "speshul" in being not a belief, you have to be believe in atheism to be an atheist, do you not?


One day we will know what came before the big bang, or even if anything did, however I must tell you that the universe is not infinitely old. It is impossible. Everything has a beginning. Otherwise, existence would be physically impossible, on purely mathematical terms.

QUOTE(jonahman10 @ Dec 30 2008, 03:51 PM) *
QUOTE(ZXValaRevan @ Dec 30 2008, 06:28 PM) *
QUOTE(Foe @ Dec 30 2008, 03:00 PM) *
Atheism may not be a religion, but it is certainly a belief that there is no upper power, and some associate with that having faith that there isn't one. I am Athiest, I believe in this lack of higher power.

As far as creationism vs bigbang/other stuff.

I believe in neither, I don't believe in a beginning at all.

Faith and Reason are not mutually exclusive, they are not mutual. They are not conceptual opposites. It is reasonable to have faith in things, to reason you must have faith that you reasoning is based on fact.

Nononono. Atheism is not a belief that god doesn't exist. It is a lack of belief that God exists. Subtly different.

How can you not accept the Big Bang? Do you have another alternative with better evidence? More support? Do you have any reason to doubt Big Bang theory?


How could a explosion made life. That seems very childish to me! Intelligent design makes more sense including the fact that the being is in an out of time dimension

My dictoinary states that Athiesm is the lack of a real religion.


Hahahahahaha. Oh dear god. You crack me up. Intelligent Design is the worst and most poorly backed up theory ever.

Simply speaking. No. Firstly because God can't do it because there is no evidence of his existence. Thus, he is entirely irrelevant. There we go, we're done here.

But for your sake, I will explain how it CAN and DID create life;

Scientists have, in labs, been able to recreate a situation in which basic proteins and amino acids (thus, by extension, life) are formed from other materials. In simpler terms, it is very easily possible for life to be created from the Big Bang (which isn't really an explosion at all). But seriously, Intelligent Design is a lulzworthy thing.
  Forum: Debates · Post Preview: #599481 · Replies: 164 · Views: 22,134

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 30 2008, 06:28 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


QUOTE(Foe @ Dec 30 2008, 03:00 PM) *
Atheism may not be a religion, but it is certainly a belief that there is no upper power, and some associate with that having faith that there isn't one. I am Athiest, I believe in this lack of higher power.

As far as creationism vs bigbang/other stuff.

I believe in neither, I don't believe in a beginning at all.

Faith and Reason are not mutually exclusive, they are not mutual. They are not conceptual opposites. It is reasonable to have faith in things, to reason you must have faith that you reasoning is based on fact.

Nononono. Atheism is not a belief that god doesn't exist. It is a lack of belief that God exists. Subtly different.

How can you not accept the Big Bang? Do you have another alternative with better evidence? More support? Do you have any reason to doubt Big Bang theory?
  Forum: Debates · Post Preview: #599378 · Replies: 164 · Views: 22,134

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 30 2008, 05:52 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


This my friends, is Capitalism at it's finest (or worst, depending on what you want to think). It's just an expansion on the idea. They want people to buy things. Lots of things. For lots of money. The rich don't want you to get rich. If everyone is rich, then no-one is rich. The market, and society really, is built around the idea that people will always buy things. As soon as you start making more money, it is assumed, in fact, you have it drilled into your psyche everyday, that you will up your "standard of living". In this way, you will never really make money.
  Forum: Debates · Post Preview: #599358 · Replies: 10 · Views: 4,088

ZXValaRevan
Posted on: Dec 30 2008, 05:47 PM


FEPer
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 30-December 08
From: At 12:59...
Member No.: 7,700


Topic isn't that old, so time to smash some heads... *cracks knuckles*

QUOTE(Light Brand @ Dec 3 2008, 04:20 PM) *
First off, I would like to point out that by definition, atheism IS a religion, just one without gods or a church/temple. While there is no physical evidence that God exists, there is none that he doesn't, and you are putting faith in the fact that everything is just the way you see it, and there is nothing beyond humanity. That technically qualifies it as a religion, it doesn't need a clergy or temple etcetera. Just thought I would point this out.

Anyways...Ahem...

I believe in God, because it doesn't make sense that there wouldn't be a creator. Where did the Big Bang come from, after all?
However, I understand, especially in this day and age, why so many people lose faith; look at what the Catholic Church has done in the past (and still does today, in isolated cases). Look at the "Baptist Types" (you all know who I mean). People who believe the Earth and the universe is 8000 years old drive people away from God, even though they believe they're doing the opposite. And I understand that a lot, because I used to go to a Baptist private school and Jesus Christ (no pun intended), they were obnoxious...not saying all Baptists are, just the ones I met.

But it doesn't make sense that God wouldn't exist; something can't come from nothing. As for where God came from, if you want to discuss that with me, PM me, because I don't think I have enough room here to go into that.

Honestly, despite what so many religions think; Fundamentalist Christians, Catholics, Islam, Judaism; I DON'T think God cares if you are baptized or if you do thiry Hail Marys or travel to Mecca or eat pork. God is unconditional. And for you people who don't believe in God, God believes in you, whether you believe it or not, and whether you like it or not.

And also, due to Dante's Inferno, society's view of "hell" has been completely altered. Hell literally means "the grave". Never once in the Bible is hell reffered to as some flaming netherworld where bad people go. Some fundamentalists argue with me that there is in fact a lake of fire in the Bible, but this is a separate thing, and isn't in fact a place. "The Lake of Fire" just means something is destroyed or rid of.

In the end there will be a new heaven and a new Earth, and in the end, the universe will collapse and create itself again.
God is everywhere, in everything, and all around you; a new theory states that atoms don't exist, everything is just little knots in the line of time-space.
Interesting connections, no? I think so. Maybe there is more I can discover.

But, I digress. I always ramble on politics, theology, etc. I apologize. But once again, though you may not believe He exists ("It" is a more accurate term, as in the days when many scriptures were written things of indeterminate gender were called "he"), God loves you unconditionally.

You'll find this out for yourself soon enough, though.

First off, Atheism isn't a religion. I will assume that you are simply poorly informed, because you seem reasonable enough. Atheism is just the lack of belief in any deity. You can have an atheistic religion (like Buddhism), or you can just be an atheist. Atheism is not a religion at all, as it requires no belief.

On a similar note, Science is not a religion either, as Science is based on fact, logic, and all things provable, thus not requiring any belief.

Now to get on to it;

I am an atheist. I am not religious, because no religion possesses significant proof to it's factuality, and if it has no proof, then what would possess me to believe it? Why would I, say, believe that their is an invisible fire breathing dragon in my garage, if there is no evidence to suggest such a fact? Essentially, I love to invoke Occam's Razor. Not to mention numerous contradictions and impossibilities presented in Religious texts.

Anyhow, I would love for you to present, here, where God came from. And to speak frankly, I'm not sure whether you possess any real understanding of the Big Bang, since it is almost universally regarded as more or less fact (the idea, details are still being worked upon) by the Scientific Community. In essence, something coming before the Big Bang is fairly unimportant, and in fact unknown, because when Science hasn't figured something out yet, we don't pretend we do.

Anyway, honestly, I'm fine with people believing in the new "soft" god (the one who likes evolution, and is pretty much in cahoots with Science), although it does make me wonder. If you're going to dismiss the majority of the Bible for some reason or another, why not do the same thing with the rest?
  Forum: Debates · Post Preview: #599355 · Replies: 164 · Views: 22,134


New Posts  New Replies
No New Posts  No New Replies
Hot topic  Hot Topic (New)
No new  Hot Topic (No New)
Poll  Poll (New)
No new votes  Poll (No New)
Closed  Locked Topic
Moved  Moved Topic
 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18th January 2020 - 11:56 PM

Affiliates