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Stat Archetypes
kryptonite
post Jun 26 2010, 10:25 AM
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Desolate Soul
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Hopefully this will help out everyone, especially newbies with making units. The newbie guide is kind of outdated (suggesting high Skl/Spd only)

Example units are given, although if people would like to suggest examples of their own, it would be welcome. (ex: non-Druid/Axe dual tanks, +5/15 classes where needed, non-+5/15, etc.)

Glass Cannon (Pow/Skl/Spd)
These have high Pow/Skl/Spd but less HP/Def/Res like the nature suggests. The most popular build. Extra stats go into HP so it doesn't die in one hit, or Luc so it can Avoid better. Reminiscent of the days of old FETO (where Spd was hax)... (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/cat.gif)

Pros: Kills easily.
Cons: Dies easily.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Mercenary -> Swordmaster [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/7.5%]: 52.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/15%]: 30.00
SPD [1/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 12.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 30.00
Pursuit/Wrath

Normal:
Mage -> Savant [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/12.5%]: 30.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [0/0%]: 17.00
Pursuit/Wrath


Nihil Tank (HP/Pow/Skl/Spd/Def or Res)
Usually have 50/70 HP for max Nihiling and ~24 (depending on what kind of weapon it uses) of all other stats but Luc and Def/Res (depending on what they use). Extra stats can go into HP or the opposite Def, or into stats with 24 so that it can use heavier weapons.

Pros: Not affected by skills most of the time. Doesn't have too much investment in a particular area (so usually does more damage than it takes).
Cons: Unable to use heavy weapons (without investment). Twins. No particular offensive capabilities. Low Hit.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Mage -> Sage [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 60.00
POW [1/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/0%]: 25.00
SPD [0/15%]: 25.00
DEF [2/20%]: 22.00
RES [1/5%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
Nihil/Aurora

Wyv. Rider -> Wyv. Master [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 50.00
POW [0/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/2.5%]: 24.00
SPD [0/5%]: 24.00
DEF [1/2.5%]: 25.00
RES [2/20%]: 18.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Nihil/Counter


Avoid Tank (Pow/Spd/Luc)
These invest in Pow/Spd/Luck and rely on Avd to survive. Extra stats go to HP so it can take a hit, or Skl so it can hit better. It can also invest in Def/Res if it is a lord. Usually a Valk, Peg Mage, +5 or +15 Avd class.

Pros: Good chance at avoiding all damage.
Cons: If it doesn't dodge, it dies.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text

Peg. Archer -> Hawk Archer [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 54.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 30.00
SPD [1/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 8.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [2/20%]: 30.00
Impale/Wrath/Pursuit/Insight

Solar Kn. -> Flare Kn. [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 40.00
POW [1/15%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 23.00
SPD [1/10%]: 35.00
DEF [0/0%]: 7.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [2/15%]: 30.00
Pursuit/Insight


Dual Tank (HP/Pow/Def/Res)
Usually have at least 25+ Def/Res. Pow 28+, HP over 50. When all others are high, put into Skl so it's hit isn't too bad.

Pros: Doesn't die easily; usually takes 3+ hits to kill.
Cons: Criticals. Specifically Dual Criticals. Avoid tanks.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Shaman -> Druid [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/5%]: 22.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/20%]: 28.00
RES [2/20%]: 29.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
Aurora/Counter

Normal:
Fighter -> Warrior [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [1/10%]: 25.00
RES [2/15%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Counter/Aurora


Dual Tank... with Skill! (Pow/Skl/Def/Res)
Same as above, but there is Skl investment instead of HP investment. Also, Pow/Def/Res are all lower. Spd/Luc are dumped.

Pros: Doesn't die easily; usually takes 3+ hits to kill.
Cons: Dual Tanks.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Fighter -> Warrior [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/7.5%]: 58.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/20%]: 28.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/15%]: 28.00
RES [2/20%]: 27.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Counter/Aurora

Normal:
Shaman -> Druid [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 44.00
POW [1/5%]: 28.00
SKL [2/5%]: 27.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/10%]: 24.00
RES [1/20%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
Aurora/Counter


Speedy Dual Tank (Pow/Spd/Def/Res by Mike)
These units are fast and strong defensively, investing in a bit of everything, but focusing on Pow/Spd.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Cleric -> Sage [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/20%]: 58.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/10%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Pursuit/Nihil/Counter/Aurora

Normal:
Fighter -> Warrior [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 20.00
RES [0/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/Nihil/Counter/Aurora


Idols
These units can use staves and aren't 2HKOed by anything without skills.

Pros: Staves, not 2HKOed without skills.
Cons: more susceptible to skills than their general Nihilin' counterparts.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Cleric -> Bishop [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 52.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 22.00
SPD [0/10%]: 23.00
DEF [2/10%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Curate -> Defender [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/5%]: 22.00
SPD [1/10%]: 23.00
DEF [0/0%]: 22.00
RES [1/10%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00


Hitmaster (Pow/Skl/Luc)
These units invest in Pow/Skl/Luc for (almost) guaranteed high powered damage. Status staves can make use of this. Usually a +5 or +15 Hit class.

Pros: Pretty much guaranteed successful first strike.
Cons: Dies like flies to Pursuit/Counter/Aurora.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Troubadour -> Valkyrie [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 58.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SPD [0/0%]: 21.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 15.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 35.00
Insight/Wrath

Normal:
Archer -> Marksman [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [0/0%]: 14.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 29.00
Insight/Wrath


Non-conventional:
Specialized Tank (Pow/Skl/Def or Res)
A tank that defends against one kind of damage. Extra stats can go into the opposite Def or HP to help it survive.

Pros: Distribution over few stats gives the unit an advantage when fighting units that target its specialized def.
Cons: Annihilated by opposite damage.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Physical (not lord!):
Curate -> Defender [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 30.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [2/15%]: 30.00
RES [0/0%]: 11.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Counter/Wrath

Magical:
Cleric -> Bishop [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 46.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [2/7.5%]: 30.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Aurora/Wrath


Specialized Avoid Tank (Pow/Spd/Def or Res)
Basically like above, but sacrifices Skl for Spd. Extra investment can be HP or opposite Def for survivability, Skl for hit, or Luc for increased Hit/Avd.

Pros: Hard to kill, especially by damage of the right type.
Cons: Poor hit. Also, no +Pow/Spd/Def or Res natures. Also, tends to die from opposite attacks.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 18.00
SPD [1/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/10%]: 30.00
RES [0/0%]: 6.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00
Pursuit/Counter/Insight

Normal:
Heaven Kn. -> Star Kn. [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 40.00
POW [1/20%]: 25.00
SKL [1/0%]: 15.00
SPD [0/10%]: 34.00
DEF [0/0%]: 7.00
RES [2/5%]: 30.00
LCK [2/5%]: 28.00
Pursuit/Aurora/Insight


Standard Tank (HP/Def/Res)
Maximum HP/Def/Res, then add to other stats.

Pros: Also doesn't die.
Cons: Weak, unless lorded...

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord:
Footman -> General [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/7.5%]: 70.00
POW [0/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/15%]: 27.00
SPD [1/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/12.5%]: 35.00
RES [2/20%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 6.00
Counter/Aurora/Wrath/Nihil

Normal:
Templar -> Crusader [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 22.00
SKL [0/0%]: 19.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/0%]: 27.00
RES [2/20%]: 26.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Counter/Aurora/Nihil


Never Die Tank (HP/Spd/Luc)
Basically a bait or support unit. People usually ignore this unit because it seems harmless, but it can still use staves!11

Pros: Hard to kill.
Cons: Useful defensively only.

Examples: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Lord by Mike:
Heaven Kn. -> Star Kn. [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 16.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [1/10%]: 35.00
DEF [2/20%]: 21.00
RES [2/0%]: 28.00
LCK [1/20%]: 29.00
Insight/Aurora/Pursuit/Counter

Normal:
Nomad -> Nomad Trooper [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 50.00
POW [0/5%]: 20.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 17.00
RES [1/7.5%]: 17.00
LCK [2/20%]: 28.00
Pursuit/Insight

Yeah, pretty much trash.


???

Not listed:
Critmaster, usually split into Glass Cannons and Hitmaster

Extra tips:
5/10/15/20 percents are optimal for units staying unpromoted, otherwise 2.5, 7.5, 12.5, and 17.5 are okay as well.
Try to have your builds unable to be killed in one hit.
Try to have the highest Pow you can get (28+).
To avoid a skill without max investment, try just getting 27-29 in it, depending on what you want to avoid. If you have Nihil, 50 HP will lower it to 24-26, and 70 will lower it to 23-25.
Skill: 28+ is required almost for Wrath. Otherwise it will only activate on Avd tanks and Dual tanks. 27 will avoid Wrath.
Speed: 27 will avoid pursuits from everything but peg mages. This cuts your attack to 0.75*2, so you may be countered before killing if you use this!
Def: People usually go all out (28+), middle (20-24), or dump it (17-), so 24 is enough to counter most folks. 30 to counter all. Generals can counter even 30 though.
Res: People usually go all out (28+), middle (20-24), or dump it (17-), so 24 is enough to counter most folks. 30 to aurora all.
Luc: People usually either go all out on it, or dump it. You can actually use 20-24 to Insight half of everyone's units. Watch out for Valks with over 30 Luc though.
^Those do not take into account Weapon Weight!!! If you want to avoid these skills, you have to add +1 for up to C (Silver) and +2 for A (Great).

Weapons, using "Vanilla" (lance/bows/anima):
CODE
Standard:
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Bronze (Reliable) 4 107 -21 0
Toy 1 (Reliable) 5 92 -21 0
Steel (Slim) 7 102 -3 1

Nihil, Impale, Pursuit, Counter, Aurora:
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Silver (Reliable) 11 92 -11 1
Great (Slim) 14 87 2 2
Great (Reliable) 16 82 -6 2

Critmaster (Wrath):
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Toy 3 (Sharp) 7 72 21 2
Silver (Sharp) 9 82 21 1
Twin (Activated) 10 77 20 3
Killer (Physical) 10 82 30 1
Silver (Gambler) 11 77 13 1
Killer (Magic) 11 77 35 3
Mithril (Sharp) 12 77 26 2
Great (Sharp) 14 72 26 2
Great (Gambler) 16 67 18 2

Hitmaster (Insight):
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Toy 3 (Heavy) 10 72 -3 2
Twin (Activated) 10 97 0 3
Silver (Heavy) 12 82 -3 1
Great (Slim) 14 87 2 2
Great (Heavy) 17 72 2 2


Mages don't need Toys. So they can opt for something like: Bronze (Reliable), Steel (Slim), Silver (Reliable), and:
Mithril (Reliable), Great (Reliable), Great (Heavy), Parity/S Rank/Status/Staff
Mithril (Sharp), Great (Sharp), Great (Reliable/Lethal/Slim), Great (Gambler), Parity/S Rank/Status/Staff
Bronze (Reliable) and Toy 1 (Reliable) can be replaced with Bronze (Slim) and Toy 1 (Slim) if you feel the hit rates are too low.
It is not impossible to crit with 0 Wt weapons, but it is so unreliable it isn't worth it (also Worm Sharp OHKOs can be lulzy).
Mithril (Sharps) are used for their hit rates over Greats and their power over killers.
If you are a hit dump unit, you may want to consider investing in all Slims and a Great (Reliable).
Hitmasters may consider Gamblers or Sharps as well for lucky~ crits.
Critmasters may consider Reliables, Slims, or Lethals for higher hit rates.
Iron (Reliable) and Steel (Slim) has a difference of 1 Mt, some Crit, and 1 Wt.
For Insight, Iron (Heavy) may replace Steel (Slim), and Toy 1 can be Heavy instead of Reliable.
Twins can be useful for Counter/Aurora. As you see above, they aren't even that good even when they activate with Insight/Wrath compared to their unactivated! counterparts. (Twin (Insight) is comparable to Silver (plain), but then you have the 3 Wt problem) They can also be useful for Pursuiting those glassy 27 Spd units...
Remaining slots can be used for: Parity, Slayers, Reavers, Longbow, Status Tomes, Seiges, S-ranks, more toys, etc.

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

Feel free to have a general discussion on which is best/broken/worst. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/awesome.gif)
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Haar's nap time
post Jun 26 2010, 12:25 PM
Post #2


FEPer
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this is pretty helpful actually(to me at least)...
now I know how to make more effective builds
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§ Hitsugaya §
post Jun 26 2010, 12:47 PM
Post #3


Grand Master
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I think it's great you're helping noobies (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/clap.gif)

QUOTE(Kryptonite)
Feel free to have a general discussion on which is best/broken/worst (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/awesome.gif)

Unpromoted I prefer tanky units, for sure. 'Dodgy' units die so easily in unpromo, especially if someone has slim forged weapons.
Or a squad with 4+ mounts with pursuit/wrath.

Promoted I like everything. It's so many ways to build your units.
But I think tanky units might be what I'd call 'broken'. hp,pow,def,res units. (if lord +skl)

Because the way to deal heavy damage is by using pursuit and wrath. But pursuiting somebody with high def/res and get counter/auroraed twice, making the tanky unit attack thrice. That's dangerous. And wrath is unreliable.

They don't have too bad hit rate either, because they can forge slim weapons, and not every unit out there is a 30 spd 24+ lck unit.
And if you have a squad with them you can always use the WTA to get higher hit %. (Let's not forget freeze, although that's almost never used).

There's more ways to build units than you've listed, but I guess that's why you've written '???' atm.
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Beemo
post Jun 28 2010, 09:04 PM
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Big Men Ovulate
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While I agree with most everything you said, krypto, I don't really like all the builds you posted as examples...

There is definitely leeway when it comes to making units. Given, I've built well over 200 units, and changed their stats multiple times each. I hate almost all 30/30/30/-/-/30 builds, so I think there are much better options for Glass Cannon lords. In fact, I have a "Glass Cannon" Leftenant and Sage lord, that are more 30/26/30/20+/20+/-- with relaitively high HP. Not only do the Pursuit and avoid Pursuit/Wrath, they also survive two hits from any unit barring crits. Try something like:

Quinn
Assailant -> Leftenant [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/20%]: 26.00
SPD [1/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/15%]: 22.00
RES [0/0%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

Penelope
Cleric -> Sage [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/20%]: 58.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/10%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Oh, and with the last unit type you posted, don't count them out as useless...
Heaven Kn. -> Star Kn. [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 16.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [1/10%]: 35.00
DEF [2/20%]: 21.00
RES [2/0%]: 28.00
LCK [1/20%]: 29.00

With Shield, this thing is a total BITCH to kill, and if your bow users are dead, it will take 3 hits from anything and survive (barring crits, again, as well as the rare Impale) This thing will heal, aid with h/r, and Poison you like you wouldn't believe.
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kryptonite
post Jun 28 2010, 09:09 PM
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Desolate Soul
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QUOTE(Haar's nap time @ Jun 26 2010, 01:25 PM) *
this is pretty helpful actually(to me at least)...
now I know how to make more effective builds

Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif)

QUOTE(§ Hitsugaya § @ Jun 26 2010, 01:47 PM) *
I think it's great you're helping noobies (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/clap.gif)

QUOTE(Kryptonite)
Feel free to have a general discussion on which is best/broken/worst (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/awesome.gif)

Unpromoted I prefer tanky units, for sure. 'Dodgy' units die so easily in unpromo, especially if someone has slim forged weapons.
Or a squad with 4+ mounts with pursuit/wrath.

Promoted I like everything. It's so many ways to build your units.
But I think tanky units might be what I'd call 'broken'. hp,pow,def,res units. (if lord +skl)

Because the way to deal heavy damage is by using pursuit and wrath. But pursuiting somebody with high def/res and get counter/auroraed twice, making the tanky unit attack thrice. That's dangerous. And wrath is unreliable.

They don't have too bad hit rate either, because they can forge slim weapons, and not every unit out there is a 30 spd 24+ lck unit.
And if you have a squad with them you can always use the WTA to get higher hit %. (Let's not forget freeze, although that's almost never used).

There's more ways to build units than you've listed, but I guess that's why you've written '???' atm.

(IMG:style_emoticons/blue/proudbow.gif)

I agree about unpromo (Team C.Rit Hax sucked >_>), but Reliable > Slim...

I disagree promo though. Hawks (100-105 Avd) and non Spd-dump peg mages (90-100 Avd) are enough to make even my 30 Skl lord throwing knives only have 50% hit-- 60% if he had S rank and it was a Reliable... Shimmer also reduces this-- and Shimmer actually hits what it targets. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/rolleyes.gif) +5/5/5 isn't bad either, with 85-95 if you go Spd/Luc... Troubs aren't as well with 90+. The latter 2 can even take advantage of terrain!

I dunno about more ways to build-- you all can suggest more-- I think even the latter ones suck, and the lords mimic earlier ones... XD

EDIT: Ninja-post!


QUOTE(Geheimnis @ Jun 28 2010, 10:04 PM) *
While I agree with most everything you said, krypto, I don't really like all the builds you posted as examples...

There is definitely leeway when it comes to making units. Given, I've built well over 200 units, and changed their stats multiple times each. I hate almost all 30/30/30/-/-/30 builds, so I think there are much better options for Glass Cannon lords. In fact, I have a "Glass Cannon" Leftenant and Sage lord, that are more 30/26/30/20+/20+/-- with relaitively high HP. Not only do the Pursuit and avoid Pursuit/Wrath, they also survive two hits from any unit barring crits. Try something like:

Quinn
Assailant -> Leftenant [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/20%]: 26.00
SPD [1/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/15%]: 22.00
RES [0/0%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

Penelope
Cleric -> Sage [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/20%]: 58.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/10%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Oh, and with the last unit type you posted, don't count them out as useless...
Heaven Kn. -> Star Kn. [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 16.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [1/10%]: 35.00
DEF [2/20%]: 21.00
RES [2/0%]: 28.00
LCK [1/20%]: 29.00

With Shield, this thing is a total BITCH to kill, and if your bow users are dead, it will take 3 hits from anything and survive (barring crits, again, as well as the rare Impale) This thing will heal, aid with h/r, and Poison you like you wouldn't believe.

Those two are pretty interesting! (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) I'll put them up... But I think they might fit a different build, like maybe Semi-defensive?

And the last one is a lord with just 16 Pow... >_>; Poison is a threat, but otherwise, it's not threatening... So people will probably choose to ignore it...
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Beemo
post Jun 28 2010, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE(kryptonite @ Jun 28 2010, 08:09 PM) *
Those two are pretty interesting! (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) I'll put them up... But I think they might fit a different build, like maybe Semi-defensive?

And the last one is a lord with just 16 Pow... >_>; Poison is a threat, but otherwise, it's not threatening... So people will probably choose to ignore it...


Yeah, 16 power isn't a huge deal, however, this unit was born to be bait. Throw this in the middle of the battlefield with a Shield/Fortune (depending on the threat) and then watch you opponent as they do one of three things:

1. They haplessly attack it
2. They try to h/r it
3. They move away from it.

Any of these things will benefit you, since you'll either be able to completely reorder your units or you'll be able to respond with a h/r from your 30/30/30 Sniper after they took a Poison from your 30+ (maybe) luck Insight.

It's not always about damage, my friend!

p.s. This unit should be using Insight/Aurora. Insight will help with the Poison counters, and Aurora will get you some damage in a pinch
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kryptonite
post Jun 28 2010, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE(Geheimnis @ Jun 28 2010, 10:26 PM) *
QUOTE(kryptonite @ Jun 28 2010, 08:09 PM) *
Those two are pretty interesting! (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) I'll put them up... But I think they might fit a different build, like maybe Semi-defensive?

And the last one is a lord with just 16 Pow... >_>; Poison is a threat, but otherwise, it's not threatening... So people will probably choose to ignore it...


Yeah, 16 power isn't a huge deal, however, this unit was born to be bait. Throw this in the middle of the battlefield with a Shield/Fortune (depending on the threat) and then watch you opponent as they do one of three things:

1. They haplessly attack it
2. They try to h/r it
3. They move away from it.

Any of these things will benefit you, since you'll either be able to completely reorder your units or you'll be able to respond with a h/r from your 30/30/30 Sniper after they took a Poison from your 30+ (maybe) luck Insight.

It's not always about damage, my friend!

p.s. This unit should be using Insight/Aurora. Insight will help with the Poison counters, and Aurora will get you some damage in a pinch

I see... (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) I added the Leftenant as the lord for "Speedy Dual Tank" and replaced the War Medic with your Star Knight! I tried to make a Reaver normal unit for the Speedy Dual Tank, although I feel it's just not the same...
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Beemo
post Jun 28 2010, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE(kryptonite @ Jun 28 2010, 08:40 PM) *
QUOTE(Geheimnis @ Jun 28 2010, 10:26 PM) *
QUOTE(kryptonite @ Jun 28 2010, 08:09 PM) *
Those two are pretty interesting! (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) I'll put them up... But I think they might fit a different build, like maybe Semi-defensive?

And the last one is a lord with just 16 Pow... >_>; Poison is a threat, but otherwise, it's not threatening... So people will probably choose to ignore it...


Yeah, 16 power isn't a huge deal, however, this unit was born to be bait. Throw this in the middle of the battlefield with a Shield/Fortune (depending on the threat) and then watch you opponent as they do one of three things:

1. They haplessly attack it
2. They try to h/r it
3. They move away from it.

Any of these things will benefit you, since you'll either be able to completely reorder your units or you'll be able to respond with a h/r from your 30/30/30 Sniper after they took a Poison from your 30+ (maybe) luck Insight.

It's not always about damage, my friend!

p.s. This unit should be using Insight/Aurora. Insight will help with the Poison counters, and Aurora will get you some damage in a pinch

I see... (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif) I added the Leftenant as the lord for "Speedy Dual Tank" and replaced the War Medic with your Star Knight! I tried to make a Reaver normal unit for the Speedy Dual Tank, although I feel it's just not the same...


Yeah, that "unit type" is pretty much lord-only. And actually, I have that War Medic too, only I'd consider him as a Pro-Insighter AVD tank. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/wink.gif)

EDIT: One last thing. On the "Speedy Dual Tanks," you also have the option on Counter/Aurora as backup skills with Shield/Ward support respectively.
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§ Hitsugaya §
post Jun 29 2010, 09:57 AM
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I used Defencive for that type of build.
Wyv. Fighter -> Wyv. Knight [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/17.5%]: 26.00
SPD [1/10%]: 28.00
DEF [0/2.5%]: 26.00
RES [1/17.5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Pursuit/Counter

Shaman -> Druid [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [1/20%]: 28.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 28.00
DEF [1/0%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 19.00
LCK [0/5%]: 17.00
Pursuit/wrath

Those are my 2 lords that will be like that.

And I have lots of generic units like that as well,
Fighter -> Warrior [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 20.00
RES [0/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/counter

But they have kind of bad hit rate, and are afraid of wrathers, peg mages, counter/aurora (if not shilded/warded). Oter than that they are 2HKO-proof.

I'd comment more, but I have short time atm.
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Niisan
post Jun 29 2010, 03:49 PM
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It's nice to see that a more active duelist is undertaking a new miniguide for a new-era type of FETO. If you have more time, try to, as Mint did, and myself beforehand, make this more complete. Why is a nihil tank such? Exactly what does SKL/LUK do? Why does such-and-such qualify as ___? Justifying your examples might be redundant, but for a rising newcomer, knowing the leeway really helps when they decide to make an archetype their own.

Also, you may/may not want to add the following archetype: Hell. Since, it is unquestionably the only Tier 0 metagame team atm, and will continue as such until something occurs; aka never. Reasons for exclusion involves trying to further degenerate the game.

Also, if you're going Mint-like style, then add some etiquette/"class" tips for newbies...including level and time limits.

It's tough doing this. In 2007 as a novice, it was all "heart of your team," anything goes, choose what you excel at, etc. Now that that novice is dead, it became "wrong; it was over before you ever began." And part of you wants to instill creativity, optimism and hope for a newcomer. Poison's cool, Shimmer's cool, shiny crits are cool, skill is cool. And part of you wants to speak the truth. Ignoring dead weight, blasting first/shooting second/questions after your "W," responding to their "lookitmePROZOMG3shieldwardgg" with your entire team...

Finding that balance is a challenge which you might want to warn newcomers. My encouragement and compliments for doing this.
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kryptonite
post Jun 29 2010, 05:40 PM
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@Mike: I'll do that and add possible skills for the others, thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif)

QUOTE(§ Hitsugaya § @ Jun 29 2010, 10:57 AM) *
I used Defencive for that type of build.
Wyv. Fighter -> Wyv. Knight [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/17.5%]: 26.00
SPD [1/10%]: 28.00
DEF [0/2.5%]: 26.00
RES [1/17.5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Pursuit/Counter

Shaman -> Druid [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [1/20%]: 28.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 28.00
DEF [1/0%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 19.00
LCK [0/5%]: 17.00
Pursuit/wrath

Those are my 2 lords that will be like that.

And I have lots of generic units like that as well,
Fighter -> Warrior [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 20.00
RES [0/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/counter

But they have kind of bad hit rate, and are afraid of wrathers, peg mages, counter/aurora (if not shilded/warded). Oter than that they are 2HKO-proof.

I'd comment more, but I have short time atm.

I'll use your Warrior instead of my reaver (and swap Lefty with Sage for variety). (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif)

QUOTE(Niisan @ Jun 29 2010, 04:49 PM) *
It's nice to see that a more active duelist is undertaking a new miniguide for a new-era type of FETO. If you have more time, try to, as Mint did, and myself beforehand, make this more complete. Why is a nihil tank such? Exactly what does SKL/LUK do? Why does such-and-such qualify as ___? Justifying your examples might be redundant, but for a rising newcomer, knowing the leeway really helps when they decide to make an archetype their own.

Also, you may/may not want to add the following archetype: Hell. Since, it is unquestionably the only Tier 0 metagame team atm, and will continue as such until something occurs; aka never. Reasons for exclusion involves trying to further degenerate the game.

Also, if you're going Mint-like style, then add some etiquette/"class" tips for newbies...including level and time limits.

It's tough doing this. In 2007 as a novice, it was all "heart of your team," anything goes, choose what you excel at, etc. Now that that novice is dead, it became "wrong; it was over before you ever began." And part of you wants to instill creativity, optimism and hope for a newcomer. Poison's cool, Shimmer's cool, shiny crits are cool, skill is cool. And part of you wants to speak the truth. Ignoring dead weight, blasting first/shooting second/questions after your "W," responding to their "lookitmePROZOMG3shieldwardgg" with your entire team...

Finding that balance is a challenge which you might want to warn newcomers. My encouragement and compliments for doing this.

Thanks, Niisan! (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif)

I see-- this was supposed to be a supplement of the newbie guide, and a semi-quick way for newbies to pick and choose what kind of units they want and copy them but change class/stats a bit, so they aren't stuck with bad units making them lose the game before they begin. But I can explain a bit more when I find the time. XD

I hope people aren't building a whole team based on one archetype, but what's Hell? o.o

Well, the only thing this guide promotes is Pow-- there are builds that sacrifice/promote each of the stats (even Pow XD)!
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Konata Izumi
post Jun 29 2010, 08:44 PM
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Heya Krypy! Just droppin on by and addin some builds.

-For Nihil Tanks
- Dont forget that you can increase skl and spd to hold heavier weapons.
Hawk
Mystic -> Valiant [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 26.00
SPD [1/15%]: 26.00
DEF [1/20%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00

Now with a reflex bow, he still avoids wrath and pursuit. With a double bow, 0 wt wraths and pursuits, which are not scary.

But that's a lord. It's hard to add to skl and spd and still be an effective nihil tank. So its usually 24 XP But you can also have it 23 and hold a 0 wt weapon.

Sophia
Shaman -> Druid [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 52.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 23.00
SPD [2/10%]: 23.00
DEF [1/5%]: 21.00
RES [0/10%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

That way, it's a little more defensive, and it can still avoid the scary wraths and pursuits =P

P.S. Are you gonna also add lvl 20 builds? Be sure to say that 5/10/15/20 percents are optimal for units staying unpromoted.
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kryptonite
post Jul 12 2010, 03:15 PM
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Finally updated. XD I also added more footnotes to take care of that!

Random:
Pursuit Dual Crits: ~3.375
Pursuit One Crit, One Normal: 2.4375
Crit: 2.25
Pursuit One Crit, One Miss: 1.6875
Pursuit: 1.5
Normal: 1
Pursuit, One Miss: 0.75
Miss: 0

Countora damage: 0 - 15?
Max damage?: Berserker with Heavy Great Axe ((48 Attack) * 0.6) - (15 + 13)/2) = 29 - 14 = 15?

Weapons, using "Vanilla" (lance/bows/anima):
CODE
Standard:
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Bronze (Reliable) 4 107 -21 0
Toy 1 (Reliable) 5 92 -21 0
Steel (Slim) 7 102 0 1

Everything not using Insight or Wrath:
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Silver (Reliable) 11 92 -11 1
Mithril (Reliable) 14 87 -6 2
Great (Reliable) 16 82 -6 2

Critmaster (Wrath):
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Silver (Sharp) 9 82 21 1
Mithril (Sharp) 12 77 26 2
Great (Gambler) 16 67 18 2
Twin (Activated) 10 77 20 3

Hitmaster (Insight):
Weapon Mt Hit Crit Wt
Silver (Heavy) 12 82 0 1
Mithril (Reliable) 14 87 -6 2
Great (Heavy) 17 72 5 2
Twin (Activated) 10 97 0 3
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kryptonite
post Jun 4 2011, 02:01 PM
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Updated with forged weapon statistics and updated weapon tips. My list is a bit different from Mint's. But basically I split it up into Nihil/Impale/Pursuit/Counter/Aurora, Wrath, and Insight users, and mixes can mix up their weapons.

Here's her list:
Mint's list: Click Here To Show/Hide This Text
Physicals:
1 Slim Bronze - Low end damage
1 Reliable Great (or S rank) - High end damage
1 Toy of choice - ranged counterattack
1 Killer weapon or Sharp Mithril or Sharp Great - Last Ditch Effort
? Specialty weapons - Brave weapon, Horseslayer, Armorslayer, Parity, Twin, Longbow, Onager, Reaver
Depending on how many slots you have left after equipping specialty weapons, it is recommended you equip the following
(NOTE: If you're a critmaster, or using wrath, Reliable weapons may be traded for slim versions of the next rank up.)
(NOTE2: If you're not concerned with WT restrictions or gold cost, Lethal of the next rank may be used in place of reliable)
1 slot remaining: Reliable Steel - This puts your vanilla attacks at 1/114, 8/99, 15/84.
2 slots remaining: Reliable Iron + Reliable silver - This puts your vanilla attacks at 1/114, 5/104, 9/94, 15/84
3 slots remaining: Reliable Iron + Reliable Steel + Reliable Mithril - This puts your vanilla attacks at 1/114, 5/104, 8/99, 13/89, 15/84

Any more than that, you can add at will.
-For more high accuracy versatility, consider a reliable bronze
-For more high damage versatility, consider a heavy great
-If you're a gambler, consider lethal B rank toys.

Magicals:
Slim Wind
Reliable Fire
Reliable Elfire
Sharp Tornado
Reliable Bolganone
Heavy Bolganone


Basically the differences:
Reliable Bronze over Slim Bronze in most cases
Reliable Toy 1 in most cases
Drop Reliable Iron for Slim Steel (except for skill activation)
Ignore crit unless you are a critmaster. (Wrath and/or +15 Crit class)
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Misha
post Jun 14 2011, 12:42 AM
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Yeah. I'm pretty sure I made that list only a few weeks after forging was implemented. We did not know that Reliable was the forge of choice, nor did we know how laughably misnamed the "lethal" trait was.

Also; Idols.
(Read: Nihil tanks that don't dump DEF or RES)

Cleric -> Bishop [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 52.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 22.00
SPD [0/10%]: 23.00
DEF [2/10%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Curate -> Defender [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/5%]: 22.00
SPD [1/10%]: 23.00
DEF [0/0%]: 22.00
RES [1/10%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Curate -> Guardian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/5%]: 52.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 22.00
SPD [2/5%]: 23.00
DEF [0/0%]: 22.00
RES [1/10%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
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