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Build Comparisons
kryptonite
post Mar 4 2011, 10:38 AM
Post #16


Desolate Soul
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I can't decide between:
Heaven Kn. -> Star Kn. [Gladiator]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 44.00
POW [1/10%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [0/20%]: 34.00
DEF [1/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 22.00
LCK [2/10%]: 30.00

Heaven Kn. -> Dawn Kn. [Gladiator]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 44.00
POW [1/10%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [0/20%]: 35.00
DEF [1/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [2/10%]: 30.00

Former has Dark but the latter has +1 Spd so I can pursuit with 1 Wt weapons...
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Misha
post Mar 4 2011, 10:50 AM
Post #17

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Rienfleche is 24 mt+ 30 = 54. which means HP+DEF has to equal 55 to survive it.
You can get away with 44 hp/11 def in either case, unless you're really scared of slim bronzes.

If you're not hung up on light or dark one way or the other, you should definite go dark. Peg Mages need all the damage they can get, and with 30 lck, your hit rate isn't too shabby, with the additional fallback of Insight.
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kryptonite
post Mar 4 2011, 10:52 AM
Post #18


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Actually, the standard for damage is now Heavy Greats which need 44/12. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/noes.gif)

But thanks, I'll go dark. (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/happy.gif)
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Misha
post Mar 4 2011, 11:16 AM
Post #19

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Heavy great bow isn't hitting that.

while I'd normally see your concern, you're comparing an 8 range peg mage vs a 6 range ground unit, unless you're counting the 56% chance for a 30/30/30 (lord) peg archer to connect with one.

67 accuracy on the weapon, added to the extreme offensive valiant's 92 base hit and 10 SE bonus is 169, minus your 100 evasion is 69% chance to hit, from the most accurate unit in the game.

Furthermore, lord versions of this unit (Has to be a lord to get 30 pow/30 skl/27 lck) are pursuitable and have at best either
60 hp/10 def
or 48 hp/8 def (27 spd version)

The former is killed by a pursuit killer weapon (assuming one goes critical)
The latter is killed by any critical hit.

Finally, if someone uses a haste/shove combo to get his lord in range of your guy to risk his lord against your generic at a 69% chance to trade, isn't that a fair trade in any book? If he hits, you trade a generic for a lord. If he misses, you get a free kill.
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SereneFlight
post Mar 4 2011, 11:47 AM
Post #20

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QUOTE(Mystia Lorelei @ Mar 4 2011, 06:16 PM) *
67 accuracy on the weapon, added to the extreme offensive valiant's 92 base hit and 10 SE bonus is 169, minus your 100 evasion is 69% chance to hit, from the most accurate unit in the game.


It kinda depends on the situation is it worth of trying or not.
But in general, if 69% hit means OHKOing, it may be worth of trying... even going with Sharp Silver or Mithril Bow/ Killer Bow and Wrath sounds a lot better (31/36/40 crit with 74/79/79 hit).

QUOTE
while I'd normally see your concern, you're comparing an 8 range peg mage vs a 6 range ground unit, unless you're counting the 56% chance for a 30/30/30 (lord) peg archer to connect with one.

Battle goes on after first strike?
And what if Krypt deploys that unit into Gauntlet (Red/Green/Purple/Yellow spot)?
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Misha
post Mar 4 2011, 03:35 PM
Post #21

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Not sure if you're being pointlessly argumentative, but I'll bite.

QUOTE
Battle goes on after first strike?

In the thousand something battles I've played, the first strike decides the match. Sometimes lucky crits, status staves etc will come out to play, but I've never seen a situation where someone was good enough to trounce me on the assault and then proceed to lose the game.

QUOTE
It kinda depends on the situation is it worth of trying or not.
But in general, if 69% hit means OHKOing, it may be worth of trying... even going with Sharp Silver or Mithril Bow/ Killer Bow and Wrath sounds a lot better (31/36/40 crit with 74/79/79 hit).

You're just theorycrafting here, and your numbers are all wrong, to boot. 15 (skl) 5(s) 30(killer) 20(wrath) -30(lck) is 30 crit with a killer weapon.

An argument can be made for anything, and furthermore, this is a game of luck (read: gambling) playing into everyone's particular styles. While I'd personally go for the killer bow over the heavy great (like so), there's nothing to say that someone else wouldn't prefer the heavy great.

What I'm saying is, "On a character with 8 weapon slots, why are you afraid of the person who packs a heavy great bow?" Do they not have money to forge a reliable great? Do they not have Reinfleche, Brave bow, Onager/Longbow, Killer bow, 1-2 range weapon, and a few vanilla weapons up and down the hit/dmg spectrum?

TL, DR: Hyperaccurate heavy great is uncommon enough that you shouldn't sacrifice your functionality for it.

QUOTE
And what if Krypt deploys that unit into Gauntlet (Red/Green/Purple/Yellow spot)?

What kind of units do suiciders bring to gauntlets? (Here's a hint. The type that make dual tanks the defending units of choice.)

---

now back to my original point. Would you sacrifice the 35 spd, which lets you tendril pursuit everything in sight to avoid the potential for a heavy great to the brainpan?

Keep in mind that there's a staff that increases your DEF, when the situation arises that you need to tank the bow, but there is no staff that increases your SPD when you needed that second hit with the tendril. If they dispel the shield and hit the 69%, that's as good as a 2HKO anyways, isn't it?

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SereneFlight
post Mar 4 2011, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE
Not sure if you're being pointlessly argumentative, but I'll bite.

Naw, just commented without having interest for an argument.

QUOTE
In the thousand something battles I've played, the first strike decides the match. Sometimes lucky crits, status staves etc will come out to play, but I've never seen a situation where someone was good enough to trounce me on the assault and then proceed to lose the game.

Ugh, they haven't felt the wrath of RNG Goddess...
Sometimes RNG Goddess really have had some personal issues with me (IMG:style_emoticons/blue/dry.gif)

QUOTE
You're just theorycrafting here, and your numbers are all wrong, to boot. 15 (skl) 5(s) 30(killer) 20(wrath) -30(lck) is 30 crit with a killer weapon.

No, it's 40.
15 + 5 + 30 + 20 = 70
70 - 30
= 40

QUOTE
Keep in mind that there's a staff that increases your DEF, when the situation arises that you need to tank the bow, but there is no staff that increases your SPD when you needed that second hit with the tendril. If they dispel the shield and hit the 69%, that's as good as a 2HKO anyways, isn't it?

How that this SPD thing do with this argument/whatever this is?

Then, it will get 2HKOed with Steel Bow when it is shielded.

QUOTE
What kind of units do suiciders bring to gauntlets? (Here's a hint. The type that make dual tanks the defending units of choice.)

Pretty much Wrathers (some with high LCK too, usually bow users) and Pursuiters.
And I have seen a lot of dodgy units on defending players when units with high hit are very useful.
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Falaflame
post Mar 7 2011, 08:53 PM
Post #23


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Skylessia Characters
#1



I've been searching for a dodgy, tanky build. Yes, I realize they are wrathable but still... if this doesn't work, I guess I could just stick with a 1-side tank, considering the dodgers either have too little HP or too little res. xP


Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 27.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/10%]: 27.00
DEF [1/10%]: 25.00
RES [2/20%]: 20.00
LCK [2/15%]: 25.00

Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/15%]: 30.00
RES [1/0%]: 7.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00
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SereneFlight
post Mar 8 2011, 11:17 AM
Post #24

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+survivability vs +8 dodginess.

Well, I gotta say that I kinda like the one with more survivability.
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Misha
post Mar 9 2011, 02:07 AM
Post #25

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Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/15%]: 30.00
RES [1/0%]: 7.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00

I far prefer this one. with 17 skl, your biggest fear is Wrath. Couple wrath with the critmasters (physical classes) and their ability to get +10 hit/+15% accuracy on you (bows), and your problems are mitigated with this one.

60/25 dies to critical Rienfleche and Gambler Great bow (but barely survives the critical sharp great)
56/30 survives critical Rienfleche, which is awesome.
60/7 jobs to critical anything-stronger-than-fire, which isn't so bad, considering the worst you'll see is Ellen lobbing sharp aura at 56 hit/49 crit (~26% OHKO). Especially when compared to the fact that it survives a sniper's sharp great wrath at 71 hit/54 crit (~38% OHKO avoided by high def).

If you want to survive one crit and be dodgy, do just that. Build to survive the crit, then funnel the rest into avoid.
26 def to avoid the rienfleche wrath ohko,
21 res to avoid the gespenst wrath ohko.

If you're not going to avoid the ohko, hang the sense of avoiding some ohkos and focus on something else.

60/26/11 is still magic food. it's just an elfire to the brainpan instead of a thunder. 5 less accuracy may be worth it for you.
60/30/7 means the character's goal is singular. "Get the mages off the board, tank the physicals". pretty min-maxy, but it's effective.
60/26/6 gives you 5 points to put elsewhere. 21 SKL + Nihil will shut down 2 wt criticals from those pesky mages, and allow you some extra accuracy when not insighting.
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Falaflame
post Mar 9 2011, 08:17 AM
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The closest I can get to a dodgy def/res tank is this.]

Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 21.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/7.5%]: 26.00
RES [2/17.5%]: 21.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00

Max avoid, Survives Gespenst and Reinfleche, but had lol@attack power... I guess you have to give something to get something.

In other words, it's not possible to have a dodgy dual tank without sacrificing power. Great researching.
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Misha
post Mar 9 2011, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE(BlackWorld @ Mar 9 2011, 08:17 AM) *
The closest I can get to a dodgy def/res tank is this.]

Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 21.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/7.5%]: 26.00
RES [2/17.5%]: 21.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00

Max avoid, Survives Gespenst and Reinfleche, but had lol@attack power... I guess you have to give something to get something.

In other words, it's not possible to have a dodgy dual tank without sacrificing power. Great researching.


+9 pow -9 lck.
92 avoid is still dodgy, don't you think? It may not be perfect, but it's definitely more playable than anything with 21 pow.
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Falaflame
post Mar 9 2011, 11:05 AM
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Then it's not going to hit anything. With the luck I could use Insight if I needed an attack to hit.

It can't die that way though either... something interesting to think about there.
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kryptonite
post Mar 9 2011, 12:43 PM
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I have something like the latter one you posted above... 27 Luc is to avoid Insight from non 31+ and also Insight a good majority of units...

Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [1/5%]: 20.00
SPD [1/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/5%]: 28.00
RES [0/0%]: 6.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00

I went for maximum Avoid and invested in Def... Then put some extra stats into Skl, although I could have reduced Def to put in more Skl I guess...
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Misha
post Mar 9 2011, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE(BlackWorld @ Mar 9 2011, 11:05 AM) *
Then it's not going to hit anything. With the luck I could use Insight if I needed an attack to hit.

It can't die that way though either... something interesting to think about there.


You asked for an evasive dual tank, not an evasive dual tank with 30 pow and great accuracy. If you're really determined to find flaws with all the characters posted, might I recommend you use this one?

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