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Falaflame
Just post your 20/0 or 20/20 builds here for rating.

This thread is made for analysis on builds, to compare one to another. This will help people who are having trouble making a decision on what they want out of their build. DO NOT POST TEAMS. If you're posting a team, post it in this thread.

That being said, I'll provide the first build.



Cleric -> Bishop [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/20%]: 27.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 25.00
RES [0/2.5%]: 26.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Aurora/Counter(/Wrath)


I want to have AT LEAST 27 Pow. Nothing lower. What I'm trying to decide is to whether to max Pow out or invest more into Res for more durability (since that's what this build is... built for)

It's either that ^ , or this:

Cleric -> Bishop [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/0%]: 27.00
SKL [2/20%]: 27.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 25.00
RES [0/10%]: 29.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Aurora/Counter(/Wrath)

Any suggestions?
SereneFlight
Stat Comparisons! oh joy!

First build can be taken down with 2 magic pursuits... but still, both builds can be taken down by two hits because of Def.

Against pursuit crits (+15 crit classes and S-rank bonus)...
[Sharp Great (Sword/Lance&Bow/Axe)]
ATK: 43/ 44/ 45
Crit%: 48% /45% /42%

Damage (0 crits): 26/ 28/ 30
Damage (1 crit): 42/ 45/ 48
Damage (2 crits): 58/ 62/ 66

Mostly pointing at pursuit with one crit since it makes second build's higher Res and lower POW pointless, less offensive and defensive.
But chance of double crit is actually high.

Magic pursuit crits (5/5/5 classes...)
[Sharp Holy/ Bolganone/ Fenrir]

First Build
ATK: 43/ 45/ 44
Crit%: 38%/ 35%/ 32%

Here, chances of double crits isn't as reliable as physical weapons...

Damage (0 crits): 24/ 28/ 26
Damage (1 crit): 39/ 45/ 42
Damage (2 crits): 54/ 62/ 58

Second Build
ATK: 43/ 45/ 44
Crit%: 38%/ 35%/ 32%

Damage (0 crits): 20/ 24/ 22
Damage (1 crit): 32/ 39/ 35
Damage (2 crits): 44/ 54/ 48

-Yeah, second build can't be OHKOed by magic double crits but 3/4 sharp Great physical wep (Lance, Bow and Axe) double crit kill it... which means that 3/7 OHKOes, while first build gets OHKOhammer by 4/7.

I'll say first build wins.
kryptonite
Wyv. Rider -> Wyv. Knight [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/20%]: 30.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [2/15%]: 30.00
RES [2/20%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00

Or...

Wyv. Rider -> Wyv. Knight [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/5%]: 30.00
RES [2/20%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00

Or...

Wyv. Rider -> Wyv. Knight [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/5%]: 24.00
SPD [0/15%]: 24.00
DEF [2/15%]: 30.00
RES [2/20%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00

???
SereneFlight
That's kinda bad one... since all builds are totally different.
Higher Hit% and Wrath vs Higher Avo vs Skill Avoider... so it kinda depends on what you want.

But, high skill one is gets killed by pursuit crits that contains 1 crit (well, that depends pretty much on weapon... Killer Bow kills only if it with 2 crits).

Pursuiter... Pretty hard to kill without crits (even Sharp Great Axe crit + normal hit from Heavy Fenrir isn't enough to kill that grin.gif ). (I know, I'm Sherlock)
[two pegmage pursuits w/ Heavy Fenrir is enough to take it down but... will they hit? If they really have a lot of SKL and LCK (max'd SKL&LCK +S-rank bonus = 80%)... it actually requires 2 lorded peg mages]

Nihil... blah, no need to say stuff.

Survivability wise, Nihil or Pursuit build.
But if you want more reliable hit% and critz, then Wrath build (Nihil build haves -9 hit% which isn't so bad but no wrath >: (well, sometimes that 9 hit% would be damn awesome dry.gif)).
kryptonite
First one uses Counter/Aurora since a +7 Res buff gives a nice 30/30 as opposed to 28/34 or something like that... The Skl is just to give it a better hit rate since it feels that WTA2 doesn't help much...

Second removes its major weakness- 30 Pow Heavy magic pursuits. Now nothing can pursuit it except 25 Pow Heavy Corruptions (lol). Although now its hit rate is awful. It can use Pursuit as an optional skill instead of Counter/Aurora though. It has an okay 70 Avd. :/ But Sharps still have good hit rate.

Third is a Nihil tank. It's main skill will be Nihil and Counter/Aurora will be secondary. Wrath and Pursuit from non-peg mages won't work, and he's super tanky to back it up. But hit rate is meh, avd is meh, and it can't use Counter/Aurora without giving up Nihil.

I currently have the first one and it works, just seeing if there's better...

EDIT: I guess I'll try out the Pursuit one for a while... Thanks! happy.gif
SereneFlight
Oh... counter and aurora... hmm.. shame that hey may get only 26SKL/SPD with 60HP, 30POW/DEF and 23RES... even it could avoid dangerous 2wt stuff when holding 0wt wep.
Nohrian Lord S-IX
HELP noes.gif

Nomad -> Barbarian [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/2.5%]: 50.00
POW [2/12.5%]: 30.00
SKL [1/10%]: 26.00
SPD [1/10%]: 25.00
DEF [2/5%]: 23.00
RES [0/0%]: 12.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Nihil/Counter

I just don't know what to do with this guy >:(, he can't be like her...


Raider -> Barbarian [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 27.00
SPD [2/15%]: 26.00
DEF [0/7.5%]: 27.00
RES [0/0%]: 7.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/Counter

This is making me think that Nomad -> Anything sux and I'm starting to not want any of them...

This is the closest I could get...
Nomad -> Barbarian [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/2.5%]: 50.00
POW [2/5%]: 27.00
SKL [1/10%]: 26.00
SPD [1/12.5%]: 26.00
DEF [2/10%]: 25.00
RES [0/0%]: 12.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Nihil/Counter

any suggestions?
kryptonite
@Pura: It would be 24/24... I'll keep it the same for now...

@Speedy:
Nomad -> Barbarian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/15%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [1/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Nihil/Pursuit

Nomads are good for Spd over Skl (for some reason they have low Skl >_>), so they make excellent Speedy Dual Tanks...
Nohrian Lord S-IX
QUOTE(GreenWorld @ Feb 25 2011, 09:44 PM) *
@Pura: It would be 24/24... I'll keep it the same for now...

@Speedy:
Nomad -> Barbarian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/15%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [1/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Nihil/Pursuit

Nomads are good for Spd over Skl (for some reason they have low Skl >_>), so they make excellent Speedy Dual Tanks...


Not sure I like the fact that it's vulnerable to crits confused.gif
I'll play around with that type of build, thx Krypto yourmove.gif
Falaflame
QUOTE(GreenWorld @ Feb 25 2011, 10:44 PM) *
@Pura: It would be 24/24... I'll keep it the same for now...

@Speedy:
Nomad -> Barbarian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [1/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/15%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [1/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Nihil/Pursuit

Nomads are good for Spd over Skl (for some reason they have low Skl >_>), so they make excellent Speedy Dual Tanks...

Until they get 2 Insight!Halberds to the face.
kryptonite
It can stay out of range of horseslayers since it mains bows and is mounted...
Falaflame
QUOTE(GreenWorld @ Mar 2 2011, 11:11 PM) *
It can stay out of range of horseslayers since it mains bows and is mounted...

Doesn't stop other mounts from doing it though.
Jart
I have 3 builds for my Fighter Lord circulating in my mind right now, but I'm not sure which one I should go with... he is currently level 20 and waiting for the rest of his crew to level up so they can promote together. The main thing I want him to do is lead the charge into the enemy team and take tonnes of punishment before going down whilst dishing out a lot of damage for someone else to mop up.

His current build is this:

Fighter -> Berserker [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/12.5%]: 30.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/17.5%]: 24.00
RES [2/20%]: 27.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00

Wrath / (Nihil or Aurora)

Basically a crit-master who can take a lot of punishment and dish out tonnes of damage (that low SPD will present problems however, and he gets countered without Nihil).


And here's a Warrior build for him:

Fighter -> Warrior [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [0/12.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/15%]: 26.00
SPD [2/17.5%]: 26.00
DEF [2/12.5%]: 27.00
RES [2/12.5%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00

Nihil / Counter

With Nihil and 2-wt weapons the only skill that activates on him is Insight (excluding Counter and Pursuit from armor units and peg mages respectively); the plan is to equip a Reflex Bow and let him lead the charge into the other team, but high avoid units and dodgy pursuit peg mages will tear him apart; the good news is that - excluding crits - he can't be 2HKO by anything.


And finally, a Reaver build.

Fighter -> Reaver [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/2.5%]: 50.00
POW [0/12.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/17.5%]: 30.00
DEF [2/20%]: 25.00
RES [2/12.5%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

Nihil / Pursuit

Throws on Nihil when peg mages are in the skies, but he gets 2HKO by mages, high DEF mages such as Dark Knights and Adepts will tear him apart.


I tried to throw in some luck but he never came out looking quite like what I wanted, so I neglected luck quite a bit. So which build should I go for? Should I go for any of them, or should I try something else?
SereneFlight
Actually 2 Peg mage pursuits with Heavy Fenrir will 2HKO Warrior... but that's not gonna happen... most likely.
Kinda depends on what you want... it's hard to tell is decent Berserker build better than decent Reaver build... especially when it is lorded.

But if you want to make a lot of damage when you attack.. then Berserker or Reaver, biggest difference in Warrior build is survivabilty.

2 things that bother in Reaver Build...
-Glassy nature isn't good there ya know? Sure it can't have a max SPD with -SPD build but then why not to use -POW, +SPD nature since it can max POW with that kind of nature...
-Why put stuff into RES if it's not going to use Aurora.. I mean.. while you got +1 RES, you could've get +2 HP...

Fighter -> Reaver [Defencive] (-POW, -SKL, +SPD, +DEF, +RES, -LCK)
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/15%]: 26.00
SPD [2/17.5%]: 30.00
DEF [1/12.5%]: 25.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [/0%]: 13.00

But if you want more luck... Try Brave nature? (-POW, -SKL, +SPD, +DEF, -RES, +LCK)

Fighter -> Reaver [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/12.5%]: 25.00
SPD [2/17.5%]: 30.00
DEF [1/12.5%]: 25.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [2/7.5%]: 22.00

With nihil, it negates 28 LCK insights (if both units are wielding weapons with same Wt), also Avo is boosted to 87 (+Possible bonus from fortune, which allows it to have up to 94 Avo without Adrenaline mode...).

Want +2/4 HP or +1/2 LCK?
Well, it can still avoid peg mage pursuits with 29SPD (with nihil, of course) and there's also SKL and DEF where you could snatch one point or 2.5%.
Misha
You should pick a class, Jart, then work on your builds.

You want high SKL on a berserker, whereas warrior gets WTA2, and doesn't need it as much.
kryptonite
I can't decide between:
Heaven Kn. -> Star Kn. [Gladiator]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 44.00
POW [1/10%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [0/20%]: 34.00
DEF [1/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 22.00
LCK [2/10%]: 30.00

Heaven Kn. -> Dawn Kn. [Gladiator]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 44.00
POW [1/10%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [0/20%]: 35.00
DEF [1/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [2/10%]: 30.00

Former has Dark but the latter has +1 Spd so I can pursuit with 1 Wt weapons...
Misha
Rienfleche is 24 mt+ 30 = 54. which means HP+DEF has to equal 55 to survive it.
You can get away with 44 hp/11 def in either case, unless you're really scared of slim bronzes.

If you're not hung up on light or dark one way or the other, you should definite go dark. Peg Mages need all the damage they can get, and with 30 lck, your hit rate isn't too shabby, with the additional fallback of Insight.
kryptonite
Actually, the standard for damage is now Heavy Greats which need 44/12. noes.gif

But thanks, I'll go dark. happy.gif
Misha
Heavy great bow isn't hitting that.

while I'd normally see your concern, you're comparing an 8 range peg mage vs a 6 range ground unit, unless you're counting the 56% chance for a 30/30/30 (lord) peg archer to connect with one.

67 accuracy on the weapon, added to the extreme offensive valiant's 92 base hit and 10 SE bonus is 169, minus your 100 evasion is 69% chance to hit, from the most accurate unit in the game.

Furthermore, lord versions of this unit (Has to be a lord to get 30 pow/30 skl/27 lck) are pursuitable and have at best either
60 hp/10 def
or 48 hp/8 def (27 spd version)

The former is killed by a pursuit killer weapon (assuming one goes critical)
The latter is killed by any critical hit.

Finally, if someone uses a haste/shove combo to get his lord in range of your guy to risk his lord against your generic at a 69% chance to trade, isn't that a fair trade in any book? If he hits, you trade a generic for a lord. If he misses, you get a free kill.
SereneFlight
QUOTE(Mystia Lorelei @ Mar 4 2011, 06:16 PM) *
67 accuracy on the weapon, added to the extreme offensive valiant's 92 base hit and 10 SE bonus is 169, minus your 100 evasion is 69% chance to hit, from the most accurate unit in the game.


It kinda depends on the situation is it worth of trying or not.
But in general, if 69% hit means OHKOing, it may be worth of trying... even going with Sharp Silver or Mithril Bow/ Killer Bow and Wrath sounds a lot better (31/36/40 crit with 74/79/79 hit).

QUOTE
while I'd normally see your concern, you're comparing an 8 range peg mage vs a 6 range ground unit, unless you're counting the 56% chance for a 30/30/30 (lord) peg archer to connect with one.

Battle goes on after first strike?
And what if Krypt deploys that unit into Gauntlet (Red/Green/Purple/Yellow spot)?
Misha
Not sure if you're being pointlessly argumentative, but I'll bite.

QUOTE
Battle goes on after first strike?

In the thousand something battles I've played, the first strike decides the match. Sometimes lucky crits, status staves etc will come out to play, but I've never seen a situation where someone was good enough to trounce me on the assault and then proceed to lose the game.

QUOTE
It kinda depends on the situation is it worth of trying or not.
But in general, if 69% hit means OHKOing, it may be worth of trying... even going with Sharp Silver or Mithril Bow/ Killer Bow and Wrath sounds a lot better (31/36/40 crit with 74/79/79 hit).

You're just theorycrafting here, and your numbers are all wrong, to boot. 15 (skl) 5(s) 30(killer) 20(wrath) -30(lck) is 30 crit with a killer weapon.

An argument can be made for anything, and furthermore, this is a game of luck (read: gambling) playing into everyone's particular styles. While I'd personally go for the killer bow over the heavy great (like so), there's nothing to say that someone else wouldn't prefer the heavy great.

What I'm saying is, "On a character with 8 weapon slots, why are you afraid of the person who packs a heavy great bow?" Do they not have money to forge a reliable great? Do they not have Reinfleche, Brave bow, Onager/Longbow, Killer bow, 1-2 range weapon, and a few vanilla weapons up and down the hit/dmg spectrum?

TL, DR: Hyperaccurate heavy great is uncommon enough that you shouldn't sacrifice your functionality for it.

QUOTE
And what if Krypt deploys that unit into Gauntlet (Red/Green/Purple/Yellow spot)?

What kind of units do suiciders bring to gauntlets? (Here's a hint. The type that make dual tanks the defending units of choice.)

---

now back to my original point. Would you sacrifice the 35 spd, which lets you tendril pursuit everything in sight to avoid the potential for a heavy great to the brainpan?

Keep in mind that there's a staff that increases your DEF, when the situation arises that you need to tank the bow, but there is no staff that increases your SPD when you needed that second hit with the tendril. If they dispel the shield and hit the 69%, that's as good as a 2HKO anyways, isn't it?

SereneFlight
QUOTE
Not sure if you're being pointlessly argumentative, but I'll bite.

Naw, just commented without having interest for an argument.

QUOTE
In the thousand something battles I've played, the first strike decides the match. Sometimes lucky crits, status staves etc will come out to play, but I've never seen a situation where someone was good enough to trounce me on the assault and then proceed to lose the game.

Ugh, they haven't felt the wrath of RNG Goddess...
Sometimes RNG Goddess really have had some personal issues with me dry.gif

QUOTE
You're just theorycrafting here, and your numbers are all wrong, to boot. 15 (skl) 5(s) 30(killer) 20(wrath) -30(lck) is 30 crit with a killer weapon.

No, it's 40.
15 + 5 + 30 + 20 = 70
70 - 30
= 40

QUOTE
Keep in mind that there's a staff that increases your DEF, when the situation arises that you need to tank the bow, but there is no staff that increases your SPD when you needed that second hit with the tendril. If they dispel the shield and hit the 69%, that's as good as a 2HKO anyways, isn't it?

How that this SPD thing do with this argument/whatever this is?

Then, it will get 2HKOed with Steel Bow when it is shielded.

QUOTE
What kind of units do suiciders bring to gauntlets? (Here's a hint. The type that make dual tanks the defending units of choice.)

Pretty much Wrathers (some with high LCK too, usually bow users) and Pursuiters.
And I have seen a lot of dodgy units on defending players when units with high hit are very useful.
Falaflame
I've been searching for a dodgy, tanky build. Yes, I realize they are wrathable but still... if this doesn't work, I guess I could just stick with a 1-side tank, considering the dodgers either have too little HP or too little res. xP


Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 27.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/10%]: 27.00
DEF [1/10%]: 25.00
RES [2/20%]: 20.00
LCK [2/15%]: 25.00

Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/15%]: 30.00
RES [1/0%]: 7.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00
SereneFlight
+survivability vs +8 dodginess.

Well, I gotta say that I kinda like the one with more survivability.
Misha
Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/15%]: 30.00
RES [1/0%]: 7.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00

I far prefer this one. with 17 skl, your biggest fear is Wrath. Couple wrath with the critmasters (physical classes) and their ability to get +10 hit/+15% accuracy on you (bows), and your problems are mitigated with this one.

60/25 dies to critical Rienfleche and Gambler Great bow (but barely survives the critical sharp great)
56/30 survives critical Rienfleche, which is awesome.
60/7 jobs to critical anything-stronger-than-fire, which isn't so bad, considering the worst you'll see is Ellen lobbing sharp aura at 56 hit/49 crit (~26% OHKO). Especially when compared to the fact that it survives a sniper's sharp great wrath at 71 hit/54 crit (~38% OHKO avoided by high def).

If you want to survive one crit and be dodgy, do just that. Build to survive the crit, then funnel the rest into avoid.
26 def to avoid the rienfleche wrath ohko,
21 res to avoid the gespenst wrath ohko.

If you're not going to avoid the ohko, hang the sense of avoiding some ohkos and focus on something else.

60/26/11 is still magic food. it's just an elfire to the brainpan instead of a thunder. 5 less accuracy may be worth it for you.
60/30/7 means the character's goal is singular. "Get the mages off the board, tank the physicals". pretty min-maxy, but it's effective.
60/26/6 gives you 5 points to put elsewhere. 21 SKL + Nihil will shut down 2 wt criticals from those pesky mages, and allow you some extra accuracy when not insighting.
Falaflame
The closest I can get to a dodgy def/res tank is this.]

Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 21.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/7.5%]: 26.00
RES [2/17.5%]: 21.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00

Max avoid, Survives Gespenst and Reinfleche, but had lol@attack power... I guess you have to give something to get something.

In other words, it's not possible to have a dodgy dual tank without sacrificing power. Great researching.
Misha
QUOTE(BlackWorld @ Mar 9 2011, 08:17 AM) *
The closest I can get to a dodgy def/res tank is this.]

Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 21.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [2/7.5%]: 26.00
RES [2/17.5%]: 21.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00

Max avoid, Survives Gespenst and Reinfleche, but had lol@attack power... I guess you have to give something to get something.

In other words, it's not possible to have a dodgy dual tank without sacrificing power. Great researching.


+9 pow -9 lck.
92 avoid is still dodgy, don't you think? It may not be perfect, but it's definitely more playable than anything with 21 pow.
Falaflame
Then it's not going to hit anything. With the luck I could use Insight if I needed an attack to hit.

It can't die that way though either... something interesting to think about there.
kryptonite
I have something like the latter one you posted above... 27 Luc is to avoid Insight from non 31+ and also Insight a good majority of units...

Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 60.00
POW [1/20%]: 30.00
SKL [1/5%]: 20.00
SPD [1/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/5%]: 28.00
RES [0/0%]: 6.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00

I went for maximum Avoid and invested in Def... Then put some extra stats into Skl, although I could have reduced Def to put in more Skl I guess...
Misha
QUOTE(BlackWorld @ Mar 9 2011, 11:05 AM) *
Then it's not going to hit anything. With the luck I could use Insight if I needed an attack to hit.

It can't die that way though either... something interesting to think about there.


You asked for an evasive dual tank, not an evasive dual tank with 30 pow and great accuracy. If you're really determined to find flaws with all the characters posted, might I recommend you use this one?

Falaflame
QUOTE(Mystia Lorelei @ Mar 9 2011, 01:45 PM) *
QUOTE(BlackWorld @ Mar 9 2011, 11:05 AM) *
Then it's not going to hit anything. With the luck I could use Insight if I needed an attack to hit.

It can't die that way though either... something interesting to think about there.


You asked for an evasive dual tank, not an evasive dual tank with 30 pow and great accuracy. If you're really determined to find flaws with all the characters posted, might I recommend you use this one?

I remember that...

Well come to think of it, those tanky druids I've seen didnt have any luck investment either... You got it on the spot then.
King of Knights
Thinking of a bishop Lord Build......

Should I go with Shimmer?

Cleric -> Bishop [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 21.00
SKL [2/15%]: 29.00
SPD [2/5%]: 27.00
DEF [2/20%]: 25.00
RES [0/10%]: 25.00
LCK [0/%]: 16.00

Counter/Aurora/Wrath/Pursuit

Pro's Shimmer's everything in Rage
Con's Not much of a first strike character.

Dodgy?

Cleric -> Bishop [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/20%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/15%]: 26.00

Purusit/Insight

This one's eh.

Nihil?

Cleric -> Bishop [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/7.5%]: 24.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 24.00
DEF [1/20%]: 24.00
RES [1/7.5%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Nihil/Impale???

Cleric to Bishop makes super awesome Nihil Build
Misha
You should really decide what you want to do on your own, and we help you make it effective.

Five people can get in a fight about which nihil bishop is the best, forget a room full of people squabbling about whether to use nihil or wrath.

That said, these are all nonlord bishops I have.

Suwako Moriya
Cleric -> Bishop [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [0/10%]: 25.00
SPD [2/10%]: 25.00
DEF [2/0%]: 17.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Alice Margatroid
Monk -> Bishop [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [1/10%]: 23.00
SPD [1/5%]: 24.00
DEF [1/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00

Mami Futami
Cleric -> Bishop [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 52.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 22.00
SPD [0/10%]: 23.00
DEF [2/10%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00

Nihil dual tank types

Shinki
Monk -> Bishop [Gladiator]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/10%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [2/15%]: 30.00

Shikieiki Yamaxanadu
Monk -> Bishop [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/7.5%]: 50.00
POW [2/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/10%]: 26.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [0/0%]: 22.00

Letty Whiterock
Monk -> Bishop [Balanced]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 44.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [0/10%]: 24.00
SPD [2/10%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 20.00

Pursuity types
kryptonite
Here's a Shimmer Troll Lord which is not a Bishop-- it is a lolar knight instead so yo can stick it right out in the open and set up hit and runs.

Shimmer Troll Lord:
Heaven Kn. -> Dawn Kn. [Defencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [0/0%]: 16.00
SKL [0/0%]: 14.00
SPD [0/10%]: 35.00
DEF [2/20%]: 21.00
RES [2/2.5%]: 28.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 29.00
Insight/Pursuit/Counter/Aurora

If your goal is to shimmer, you don't need anything else. Buff with Shield and watch the magic...

http://forums.feplanet.net/index.php?showt...mp;#entry771015

Dodgier than the one you posted and still avoids Wrath:
Monk -> Bishop [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [1/10%]: 27.00
SPD [2/17.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [1/7.5%]: 26.00
Pursuit/Insight/Wrath

One that avoids Pursuit/Insight and still is dodgy:
Monk -> Bishop [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 28.00
SPD [2/10%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 17.00
LCK [0/15%]: 28.00
Nihil/InsightPursuit/Wrath

For just generic Nihil Mint's are probably better than what I come up with...
Kelminf
Here's a Build.

Careful Knight, 2 points in HP, 20% Added growth Rate in HP, 2 points in Speed, 20% additional Growth Rate in Speed, 2 points in Resistance. Speedy armor.
Falaflame
QUOTE(Raltien @ Apr 6 2011, 09:39 AM) *
Here's a Build.

Careful Knight, 2 points in HP, 20% Added growth Rate in HP, 2 points in Speed, 20% additional Growth Rate in Speed, 2 points in Resistance. Speedy armor.

Then your knight cant hit or damage anything because you overcapped HP, can't double anything because of lol25 speed, and waste 2 points on res, which wont help the knight not get killed against lolimages. So that unit is garbage.


I've been thinking of using an anti-crit lord. But I'm at a crossroads.


Dark Kn. -> Death Kn. [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [1/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [2/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 22.00
RES [2/12.5%]: 21.00
LCK [1/17.5%]: 26.00
Insight/Nihil/Pursuit

Survives a wrathed Gambler Fenrir (if it hits), wrathed Holy Gambler (which he needs to stay away from), Gambler Bolganone has lolhit. If he can survive those, he can survive sharps just fine.

Pretty much nullifies pursuit crits, and can only be pursuited by 1wt weapons if he's holding a 2wt weapon. (Sniper with Killer Bow on pursuit has 19% crit)

Pursuit in case a unit with low speed and res comes on the field, insights most units, and Nihil nullifies counter/aurora from most typical dualtanks. Thinking about taking 1 luck and adding it to res for further aurora avoiding.


I was also, on the other side of the coin, thinking about this build.

Dark Kn. -> Death Kn. [Seer]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/2.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/20%]: 30.00
RES [2/15%]: 22.00
LCK [2/12.5%]: 25.00
Insight/Counter/Aurora


Still nullifies pursuit crits, still survives wrath from all 3 magic types. And he'll be an especially effective Dual if a ward staff is applied on him.

Insight gives him a chance to actually hit. Counter is his 2nd skill choice, and if he has a ward staff applied, he can aurora for a bit.


Both builds are weak to dodgetanks since they have as much, if not more than, luck as he has. But he's very hard to critical as his class suggests, and rightfully so.

This one is up in the air.
Nohrian Lord S-IX
Trying to build a good Falco Knight for this squad :/

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Lightweight]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/20%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 22.00
SPD [2/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [2/10%]: 25.00
Pursuit/Insight

Dodgy with WTA?

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Glass Cannon] Currently Equipped
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/5%]: 46.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/12.5%]: 29.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [0/0%]: 17.00
Pursuit/Wrath

Probably most common non-hawk-peg build

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/%]: 46.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 28.00
SPD [0/%]: 20.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [2/15%]: 28.00
LCK [/%]: 15.00
Aurora/Impale

Mageslayer?

Any ideas?
kryptonite
Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/15%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/15%]: 28.00
DEF [1/0%]: 18.00
RES [0/0%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
Nihil/Pursuit

Pretty sucky but eh...

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/15%]: 60.00
POW [2/20%]: 28.00
SKL [2/0%]: 24.00
SPD [0/0%]: 24.00
DEF [1/0%]: 18.00
RES [0/5%]: 18.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
Nihil...

I would suggest changing the class since Falcos fail.

Peg. Knight -> Seraphknight [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/15%]: 29.00
SKL [2/10%]: 28.00
SPD [0/0%]: 22.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [2/15%]: 28.00
Insight/Wrath

Kind of niche Insight Heavy Great Bow from 10 spaces away.

Peg. Knight -> Hawk Kn. [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 42.00
POW [2/15%]: 29.00
SKL [0/0%]: 22.00
SPD [2/5%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 15.00
LCK [2/20%]: 30.00
Insight/Pursuit

Peg. Knight -> Hawk Kn. [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/20%]: 27.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/5%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 15.00
LCK [2/15%]: 30.00

Maybe Dodgy builds?
Nohrian Lord S-IX
QUOTE(GreenWorld @ May 2 2011, 12:51 AM) *
Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/15%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/15%]: 28.00
DEF [1/0%]: 18.00
RES [0/0%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

Pretty sucky but eh...


Had a build like this before...didnt workout well... oh.gif
thx though
Lithe
Question; are +15 avoid units useful in 2RN?

And here is a build I want to do, but I'm not sure if I can do better. I know "all lord units are good", but I want to get the most bang for my buck.

Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Lightweight] [Lord]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 29.00 Uses axes, so I figured 29 POW wont be a problem.
SKL [2/15%]: 29.00
SPD [2/15%]: 30.00
DEF [/%]: 21.00
RES [/10%]: 12.00
LCK [2/5%]: 20.00

If I'm doing this right, the avoid should equal to 95. It has enough HP and RES to not be 2HKO by C level and below magic. And B level magic and higher has roughly 50% and lower. That is, if I did all my calculations right.

Any suggestions or build's you guys can compare mine to?
Hitsugaya
You should always max pow unless there's a really good reason to not do so.
And "Uses axes, so I figured 29 POW wont be a problem." is not one of the good reasons.
You should be more like "30 pow with axes, FUCK YEAH!"

Here's my Dracolord, from the squad Silver Draco Trio
Wyv. Fighter -> Dracolord [Brave]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/7.5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [2/2.5%]: 27.00
RES [0/10%]: 10.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00
Insight/Pursuit.

I can't really remember why I made him like this... He can't be 2 rounded by a heavy great bow, which is pretty neat and he have great avoid so hitting with it would also be a problem for most units I guess.

I know I have a really good reason for his 10% investment in ress but I'm to hangover-ish to bother checking weapon ranks calculations... Sorry sweat.gif

I hope my rubbish helped a bit...

Edit.
Oh yeah I almost forgot.
QUOTE(Normandy)
Question; are +15 avoid units useful in 2RN?

Yes, they are. I've played a lot of 2RN and I find them very useful.
However when you look on the facts it basically says that tank-ish units have a slightly better advantage in 2rn while dodgy units have a slightly higher advantage in normal.
SereneFlight
QUOTE
You should always max pow unless there's a really good reason to not do so.
And "Uses axes, so I figured 29 POW wont be a problem." is not one of the good reasons.
You should be more like "30 pow with axes, FUCK YEAH!"

Indeed... sometimes I might need that 1 POW <_ <

QUOTE
If I'm doing this right, the avoid should equal to 95. It has enough HP and RES to not be 2HKO by C level and below magic. And B level magic and higher has roughly 50% and lower. That is, if I did all my calculations right.

Insight Druidz...

I guess I would go something liek this:
Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Lightweight]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 21.00
RES [0/0%]: 8.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00

Avoids 1wt Wraths/Insights with 0wt wep.

or if I want it to survive from 2 C-ranks and still dodgy (build below has 101 avoid)...

Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Lightweight]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 26.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/20%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 21.00
RES [0/10%]: 12.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00

awesome.gif
Most reliable chance to OHKO: Marksman with 30SKL, 29/30LCK and Sharp Mithril Bow: 70/71hit, 25 crit
or... Sniper with same stats and wep: 65/66 hit, 30 crit.
Falaflame
Make sure to have your Pow above 27 unless it's a peg mage or troll unit.
SereneFlight
So... my Crusader is a troll unit?
Templar -> Crusader [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/7.5%]: 50.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 27.00 (see, it's 27, not above 27)
SKL [0/2.5%]: 24.00
SPD [2/5%]: 23.00
DEF [0/0%]: 21.00
RES [0/17.5%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00


And your zerker's a troll unit, too? (or... I think it was zerker whose 20/20 POW was 26...)
Reaper Creeper
http://feto.feplanet.net/character/view/48708
Hitsugaya
Some units can definitely have lower pow than usual and still be effective.

This is my clairvoyance Lilly Aldrin
Mystic -> Clairvoyant [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [0/5%]: 25.00
SKL [0/7.5%]: 23.00
SPD [2/5%]: 23.00
DEF [2/12.5%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
Nihil/Aurora.

She's more of the support type tho, she's able to buff +6 and she's not a easy target to eliminate.

While Axel
Wyv. Rider -> Dracomaster [Gladiator]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/2.5%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [2/17.5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 25.00
RES [0/0%]: 8.00
LCK [2/20%]: 26.00
Insight/Pursuit

He sacrificed some power to gain more speed and luck, to avoid being pursuited and insighted, while he's still being able to pursuit and insight most enemies.

I'm just sayin', power is a key stat, but in some circumstances power can be sacrificed for obtaining other "abilities".
kryptonite
QUOTE(Speedy of the Faint Smile @ May 2 2011, 03:42 PM) *
QUOTE(GreenWorld @ May 2 2011, 12:51 AM) *
Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/15%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/15%]: 28.00
DEF [1/0%]: 18.00
RES [0/0%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00

Pretty sucky but eh...


Had a build like this before...didnt workout well... oh.gif
thx though

Since it came up in the chat today...

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/20%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [2/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 20.00
LCK [2/10%]: 25.00
Pursuit/Insight

Avdy

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 42.00
POW [2/10%]: 28.00
SKL [0/0%]: 22.00
SPD [2/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [2/20%]: 27.00

Even more Avdy!

I like the first since it's similar to canon FE falcos, but your current one with the Luc in Res is also like canon FE falcos...

Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [1/10%]: 23.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 23.00
SPD [2/5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [1/7.5%]: 24.00
LCK [2/5%]: 23.00

Canon FE falcos?!
kryptonite
Raider -> Barbarian [Careful]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 28.00
SKL [1/0%]: 23.00
SPD [1/0%]: 23.00
DEF [0/0%]: 20.00
RES [2/15%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Nihil/Counter

Currently it is:
Raider -> Barbarian [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [0/0%]: 20.00
RES [2/15%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00

Which makes Pursuit 2HKO it, but the newer one can at least Nihil somewhat effectively...
Falaflame
QUOTE(Nolan Kryptonite @ May 17 2011, 01:46 AM) *
Peg. Knight -> Falcoknight [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [1/10%]: 23.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 23.00
SPD [2/5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [1/7.5%]: 24.00
LCK [2/5%]: 23.00

Canon FE falcos?!

-2 from Res and +2 to Skill

That's much more like canon.
Falaflame
Knight -> Chevalier [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/10%]: 70.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 28.00
SKL [1/2.5%]: 22.00
SPD [2/15%]: 22.00
DEF [0/0%]: 28.00
RES [1/5%]: 17.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00

Nihil/Counter

I'm sure Pow isn't much of a concern considering WTA2 (I could possibly make it a Captain, so a possible WTA3 can be an option)

So far, it takes 3 Gespensts to kill it normally. With a +7 Ward, it takes 4 Gespensts to kill it. If I trim the Pow one more notch (making it 27) and add to Res (making it 18), then apply the Ward, not only will it take 4 Gespensts to kill it, it will take 4 Heavy Fenrirs to kill it. And that's with the Short Spear/Dagger equipped. Additionally, with a Short Spear equipped, it takes 3 hammers to kill it. And even with cap speed, none of the Gespensts/Heavy Fenrirs/Hammers will double, long as a 1-wt or 0-wt toy is equipped. I haven't taken into consideration peg mages yet, however.

Am I thinking too much ahead of time?
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